New skis for Finnish Defence Forces

[lowangle al]

Why? There's already lots of those on the market. You don't need metal edges to turn on soft snow.

[Manney]

Why? It’s cheap… not just saving the cost of steel. Saving a few steps in manufacturing. Not a weight thing either. Lots of other ways to offset weight… carbon fiber, air core, painted top sheet etc.

Obviously steel edge not playing a big role in deep, soft snow. More about stiffness, flex at that point. Steel doesn’t hurt tho… adds versatility, protects base, sidewalls. Stuff lurks under powder… early, late season. Matters to consumers more than military. Military… mess up a base, edge? Draw a new pair of skis. Doesn’t cost a cent.

Judgement call manufacturing skis like Combat NATO, KSF Scout.

Combat… little more side cut, ratio, modest alpine, turning aspiration. So steel edges is a no brainer… just need to accept the maintenance implications. Scout, less side cut, ratio, flat terrain. No steel is a sensible choice, with less maintenance. Weight. Hard to tell… specs only for Combats atm. Scout would normally be heavier… 20% longer after all. Foam core might change things.

Unit price… Scout will cost a lot less to make. No steel, foam core construction is very inexpensive, easier to produce. Doesn’t mean Finns are cheap. Just means that they’ve designed a ski for unique conditions and take the cost savings.

Edgeless marching, expedition ski? Sure. Benefits might outweigh liabilities. Edgeless turning ski? Can only see benefits to the manufacturer, not skier.

[mca80]

I like taking edgeless Kongsvold downhill, a whole lot, so long as the snow is deep and soft enough. The only issue I ran into once was where the deep snow became less deep perhaps due to wind at that spot and I hit some icy hardpack under and skidded out.

All else being equal, lack of metal edge saves a lot of weight. Makes a difference in fatigue 25km into a trip.

[lowangle al]

Edgeless marching, expedition ski? Sure. Benefits might outweigh liabilities. Edgeless turning ski? Can only see benefits to the manufacturer, not skier.

I've made lots of turns on edgeless skis and I bet you never made one, so I can understand your ignorance.

[Manney]

I don’t think there much in life you do understand, lowangle… you wear your ignorance like a badge of honor.

[fisheater]

Not to engage with you Manny. For those of you that don’t know Lowangle Al, at least as a forum member. I can tell you three things about him.
1) He is a fine Telemark skier, if you know Telemark skiing, and see his still photos, his solid form is readily apparent.
2) He has been moderately successful in life and has residences in two states. The real estate is quite pleasant, he must know something.
3) His wife skis with him, so one can assume a good personal life.

So from an older guy point of view.
Still skis well
Successful in career
Successful in personal life

If that is ignorance, more people should be ignorant like that. There would be more happy, satisfied people.

[Manney]

He says stupid things… things that could get people hurt, waste money, make them feel like shit.

Like his comments to @Stephen after serious injury… ~ should never have used those skis, too old etc. what a dick. Is that what a decent person would say to an injured skier. Jeez.

Says stupid things… ~try skiing without bindings @TallGrass. Uh huh. Sounds like a great idea. Right on the heels of two threads TT, BCT on serious injuries from falls. Is that what an experienced skier would say? Hell no.

[mca80]

The slope he was skiing with shoestring bindings was really low angle and wouldn't pose a danger trying with no bindings. Also the serious injuries spoken of were because of bindings. Lack of bindings makes a fall easier to avoid leg injuries, quitr obviously. I may try surfing low angle deep snow no bindings next year, sounds like a fun experiment. Would I do so in steep trees? No.

[lowangle al]

I don’t think there much in life you do understand, lowangle… you wear your ignorance like a badge of honor.

Manney, if I'm the ignorant one why does the forum go to shit everytime you show up. You blabber about shit you have no experience with and think your opinion is as valid as someone with actual experience, and that's stupid.

This no metal edge discussion did remind me of an old pair of xc skis that I did a lot of turns on. Trak Zyphers, a double camber trail ski that I made so many turns on that I rounded off the edges. I didn't learn how to carve, they were skidded turns, but I did learn how to get centered.

What's you experience turning xc skis? Experience counts you stupid SOB.

[TallGrass]

Says stupid things… ~try skiing without bindings @TallGrass. Uh huh. Sounds like a great idea. Right on the heels of two threads TT, BCT on serious injuries from falls. Is that what an experienced skier would say? Hell no.

Huh? I wasn't skiing without bindings, rather I was skiing with Shoelace Bindings (and edge-less Rossi' fishscale skis). I fell a few times and the only "damage" visible in the 'dampness' of my pants' backside.

As far as an "experienced skier" goes, did multiple runs on double-black-EX today at Copper Mountain. The Three Bears lift opened late so got some in on the West Ridge (Union Peak) before hitting 3Bs, then had fun as a last run of the day (after 4:00pm) on Black Bear Glade by the SuperBee lift.
https://cms.coppercolorado.com/sites/co ... rgeweb.pdf
https://cms.coppercolorado.com/sites/co ... ive_v1.pdf

Last Sunday (closing day) I was at SIlverton Mountain (recommend it if you get the chance). They don't have any green nor blue runs unless you count skiing the road out of Velocity Basin to the bus/shuttle stop, and the handheld device at the base of the only lift (2-chair) isn't for checking your ski pass, rather they're checking to make sure you transceiver is live (beacon-shovel-probe required for all skiers).
https://silvertonmountain.com/mountain/trail-map/

Make of it what you will.
I had a great day skiing today!