Alpina Discovery 68 vs Fischer Outback 68 Crown

[snow-mark]

For learning, I would go with the one that is cheaper and available. You may not need skins if you’re just leaning because you probably won’t be venturing up anything that steep. But when you need them the integrated systems summarized by @wabene are better. That said, Black Diamond does still make a universal kicker skin.

I’m assuming you need boots too. Focus more on boots than on skis at this point. Get boots that fit your foot comfortably. Bad boots will ruin the learning experience. Try on as many as you can. If none available locally, order some and wear them around the house before deciding whether to keep them. Focus on whether the toe bends at a comfortable spot and whether you can keep your heel down.

There are a lot of detailed reviews of skis and boots in the review section of this site.

Good luck!

[lilcliffy]

Black Diamond used to make a kicker skin, but I'm not sure if they do anymore. That metal attachment plate on the BD skin dragged much more than these excellent systems mentioned above.

https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/ge ... WsQAvD_BwE
Redesigned BD kicker skin- looks even better than the previous design, due to the synthetic plate.

[lilcliffy]

Hey Staraflur,

Haven't examined the Alpina Discovery 68 in a while- but if it is similar to past models, its camber will be more similar to the Fischer Outback Crown 68, than the more significantly cambered Transnordic 66.

Of note is that the Easy-Skin insert is on the Outback 68, but it is no on the Transnordic 66 Crown (?!? )

If you do not want to use kick wax, and want a scaled ski- then I would highly recommend getting a kicker skin (integrated or not) for whan the snow is not ideal for scales.

Fischer's Offtrack Crown scale insert- sandwhiched between sintered shovel and tail- + the Easy-Skin kicker skin insert is superb.
And I personally think that Fischer's Offtrack Crown is currently the best scale design for Nordic Touring skis.

Don't know about your locale- but Alpina skis are significantly cheaper than Fischer in Canada.

[lilcliffy]

I have heard good things about the newer Panorama 62.

@staralfur
Note that the Madhus "62" is 62mm at the waist- and 83mm at the shovel- it will not fit in a groomed track.
The advice you have received re maximum tip width of 68mm is sound.

[satanas]

Waxing is only difficult if you haven’t done it before. I started waxing and got rid of my waxless skis.

^ Waxing (for grip) is indeed difficult if you live somewhere that has a lot of snow around 0°C, and or/wet conditions. In that case waxing is a nightmare, and carrying and fiddling about with grip waxes - let alone klisters, which do at least actually work sometimes - is a PITA.

Whether waxes or waxless will work better for you depends very much on the conditions that will be encountered. Here in Oz almost nobody voluntarily uses waxes, even for classical racing - and even for racing Zero, crown or skin bases are usually way less hassle, and often more efficient. If it was always below -5°C I wouldn't hesitate to wax, but that happens almost never here. Horses for courses...

Re kicker skins: These can be extremely problematic, though I gather Black Diamond have (finally!) eliminated the $@+!%$£ wretched stainless steel plates that used to collect snow and prevent any glide; those ones are best avoided if you ever get granular snow. The "easy skins" with a hole through the ski cannot suffer from the same problem, and nor can Madshus' excellent skins which have a length of Ptex extending forward from the skin fabric to a tip loop.