Toe bang, really want to make boots work.

[John Dee]

I had a little pain in my big toe sockets (first joint, technically the feet) after the last time with Excursions. It wasn't a lot, but it was the sort of deep sensation that causes me concern. These boots opened me up to a new type of skiing, and I really want to get back in them. I have tried on a variety of mostly used boots and think this shell size should fit, perhaps not quite as comfortable as an Excursion should be, but ok.

The liners don't seem to be filling the front. They're unmoldable. I read about cutting part way through the liners, all the way, scraping, or heating them. I'm looking for advice since the liners and my toes aren't replaceable.

[telerat]

A good boot fitter at an alpine shop would be my suggestion.

Some has bought thermoformable liners, and that is also worth trying. See:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4789
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6452
https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... post130045
The standard liners are heavier, but are often more durable and can have more padding.

[Capercaillie]

How do the liners feel when you wear them on their own without the shell? Is the toe area tight? The Excursion liners did not work for me in the Excursion shells or outside of them. After modification (more on that below) the liners still did not work for me in the Excursion shells, but they did in T4s.

I decided to go all-in on 75mm this season, and among other things bought Scott Excursions. (As luck would have it, there has been too much work and too little snow to use all this gear. If next season is better at least I will be able to afford to take more time off…). The reason I decided to get 75mm gear is because I wanted a tree skiing setup, and Lo-Fi's posts here were very informative and convinced me to go with an Altai Kom and T4 (I wasn't counting on finding a pair of Excursions). One of the things Lo-Fi recommended was trying snowboard boot liners with T4s and Excursions. I lucked into a cheap (can't remember if it was $40 or $60) pair of almost unused Thirtytwo snowboard boots with Intuition-made liners. A tongue liner with a wide toe box, good heel lock foam, and a great lacing system. Pretty good fit for my feet in the Excursion shells - I haven't even felt the need to bake them. Someone else was glad to have new snowboard boot shells; win-win all around.

I did end up using the Excursion liners (27.0) in the T4s (28.0) after cutting relief slits for the largest and smallest toes/proximal phalanx through the liners. Feels weird to have your toes poking out, but it has worked for me before in double mountaineering boots (no cold toes at -30°C either), and you get used to it. It turned out most of the fit problems I was having with the T4 were due to the stock liners - I went to a boot fitter first and he put in pronation wedges and insoles and baked the liners, and all that turned out to be a waste of time and money.

BTW, the Scarpa Intuition T4 liner probably costs more to make than the Thirtytwo Intuition liner (the Scarpa liner has a lot more stitching and faux-leather reinforcements). Why did Scarpa choose to spec such a crappy liner design for the T4?

After all that, I can't help but think that boot liners should be sold separate from boot shells.

[fisheater]

If the boots do not fill an area, molding will not help. Heating a liner allows a liner to fit better by conforming to foot. The liner does not expand. I’ve purchased two new liners from Intuition and have talked with their tech staff a couple of times. I made sure I understood how the process works.
Since you are saying your liners are not filling the space properly, I would believe the liners are packed out from the original skier(s).
If the boot is worth the cost of a new liner, I would call and speak to the people at Intuition.

[John Dee]

I knew the advice to see a bootfitter would arise. Its just not convenient at this place and time.

If the boots do not fill an area, molding will not help. Heating a liner allows a liner to fit better by conforming to foot. The liner does not expand. I’ve purchased two new liners from Intuition and have talked with their tech staff a couple of times. I made sure I understood how the process works.
Since you are saying your liners are not filling the space properly, I would believe the liners are packed out from the original skier(s).
If the boot is worth the cost of a new liner, I would call and speak to the people at Intuition.

A fine point. I think the liners are not broken in, though. I was breaking them in before this happened.

How do the liners feel when you wear them on their own without the shell? Is the toe area tight? The Excursion liners did not work for me in the Excursion shells or outside of them. After modification (more on that below) the liners still did not work for me in the Excursion shells, but they did in T4s.

Yes, big toe is real squished and toes are almost a little curled. Shell fit is a more than a finger, maybe not a finger and a half.

[John Dee]

So the injury has become a medium term, subtle arhtritic feeling behind both toes. Really surprised as they weren't extremely uncomfortable and I had no warning. That is why I didn't follow up or try to use them. It could be that I'm a 27.0 excursion shell also but thats unexpected because I thought the Syner G 27.5 shells could definitely have been a size smaller.

@Capercaillie I also went headlong into 3 pin and specifically plastic boots this winter. My brief period with excursions was revolutionary. I ditched climbing skins and cables and just looked for little places to ski down. This was a big deal because I thought that number of turns was dependent on planning long ascents and descents, and the descents were so often mediocre. I still of course want to ski mountains, but I actually got more turns this way, and think it may be how to exploit this environment.

[phoenix]

I've got Excursions with the stock (non moldable) liners. What does your foot actually measure (like on a Bannock device) for a street shoe? Meanwhile sounds like the preesure might be form the place where the tongue is sewn to the body of the liner, and there's that extra piece of elastin sewn over that too. Which is to sy there's sort of a section of stitching and stuff right at that point, if it matches where the pressure is. Which would go back to modifying or replacing the liners. The Excursions are an extremely roomy fitting boot.

[turnfarmer]

Agree on Intuition liner being best, but likely most expensive choice. Do you have a local shoe repair place, they often have shoe stretchers that can apply a lot of force to stretch tech out a liner. With some heat from a heat gun they should lengthen quite a bit.
As suggestsed above, if that doesn’t work, you have nothing to lose with liner surgery.

One last thought is that you have what sounds like functional hallux limited symptoms. This is a locking of the big toe joint that occurs when the ball of th foot is pushed upward. An insert like this can help-

[Montana St Alum]

Everyone is different, and most of my experience is with T2 Eco (and Garmont Syner-G) and above, in height and stiffness (mostly NTN), plus alpine boots. I usually go for 2 fingers in shell fit. I'm inclined to believe your shell is just too small.

[Lo-Fi]

…It could be that I'm a 27.0 excursion shell also but thats unexpected because I thought the Syner G 27.5 shells could definitely have been a size smaller.

… My brief period with excursions was revolutionary. I ditched climbing skins and cables and just looked for little places to ski down. This was a big deal because I thought that number of turns was dependent on planning long ascents and descents, and the descents were so often mediocre. I still of course want to ski mountains, but I actually got more turns this way, and think it may be how to exploit this environment.

Here’s something to try:

Look for a pair of used snowboard boots with a simple wrap liner. They look and feel extremely similar to Intuition liners I’ve had in other boots. Look for Lamar or Morrow brand(but I’ve seen them in other brands too) and/or the telltale stitched top edge of the liners. I’ve bought a few pairs, always for <$30.

I’ve used these with great success for a few pairs of tele boots: Excursions, T3s and T4s. The liners are comfy and super-light. You’ll drop a couple hundred grams per boot over the stock liners.

Sizing wise, I’ve found that I could size up for the liners and size down for the shells! So, I normally wear stock 11(11-11.5 Excursion shell and liner), but for these snowboard Intuition style liners I fit best in a size 12 liner in a 10-10.5 Excursion shell.

One other tip, if you have any extra volume(not length) in the boot, try adding an extra sock rather than cranking down on the buckles. I always wear 2 pairs of socks and ski my boots on the loosest settings and in walk mode.

I totally agree about finding turns wherever. With a pair of Koms and Excursions on, I feel perfectly adapted to and virtually invincible on almost any terrain and conditions available.