Alpina Discovery 80 reviews?

[Ira]

Sharing an update. This is good to hear from folks on here that Discovery 80 has decent grip.

I had ruled them out last week after talking to REI product support who referred me to a specialist in their Denver store, who told me the Discovery 80's in 186cm would be harder to control than the Fischer's in 169.

So I had decided to wait for Fischer Excursion 88's (1st choice), Traverse 78's (2nd choice), or S-bound 98's (in 169 only: I tried the too-short S-bound 98's in 159's when we had our first snow of December, and found that, even with rub-on mountain flow eco-wax glide paste they were kick-and-stop instead of kick-and-glide --at my 130 lb weight -- 140 with gear).

But then after seeing Tom's wonderful video-review this weekend (and looking for my 3 top choice skis in multiple place -- not just REI -- unsuccessfully), and reading this feedback here, I'm back to considering Discovery 80's if I can't get the Fischers in my size, but only if getting Discovery's in 175 (instead of the 186 that it's rated for in my weight) would not have the same glide-less result that 159's (vs 169) have in Rossis and Fischers.

REI had said that they're that much longer because the camber is slightly softer, but Tom's wonderful review actually found the Discovery's require more poundage to compress.

I emailed the "contact" from Alpina's website ('elansports") and was told "There should be no ill effect of choosing the shorter length. Unless you are tall and need the extra length for distribution, we are only providing you with what the manufacturer recommends." I'm 5'4"

So, at my low skill level, and with my physical challenges, and with my partner's experience of Discovery 80's sliding out from under her 250+ pounds, and since I'm used to skiing on 169 cm lengths, and needing to minimize falling risk, I have decided that, if I get the Discovery 80, it’ll be in 175.

So I'm going to keep looking for the Fischers 78/88/98's in 169, and if I keep failing to find them, and also find out the Discovery 80 in 175 are good for someone who’s 130-140 lbs, I might consider them again.

If anyone happens to see the Fischers in 169 (especially the Excursion 88’s -- my first choice), I’d love to know! Thanks!

[DPO777]

I have not had the opportunity to ski the Discovery 80 on hard ice, only Spring soft snow conditions. The Alpina rep told me that the Discovery 80 and the Pioneer 80 were essentially the same ski. The Discovery 80 would work fine mounted with NNN, NNNBC, Xplore, or 3 pin bindings. The skis do not have a slot for a kicker skin, so if the traction pattern is not working and skins are needed, the only option would be a strap on kicker skin, or goop the scales up with a klister. https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/e ... cker-50mm/

Johnny's detailed review:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... =discovery

In general, it is easier to edge a narrow ski than it is a wide ski, especially with soft leather boots. Julie always picks her Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 over her Excursion 88's (88-68-78) @ 169 when skiing hard packed and fast trails. The Odyssey's are the oldest skis in her current quiver. I'm guessing they are circa 2000. It is her go to ski for a Forest Service road that we ski that has a 500 foot elevation drop over 3 miles. I often blast down the road on narrow skis at full speed (no turns required) while she checks her speed with a snowplow. The point here is that she picks the narrow ski with metal edges when she needs to snowplow. In my opinion, most of the skis from various brands with similar dimensions and camber ski pretty much the same. I'm often amused and impressed by others who can decern the finite differences between similar skis of various brands. I tend to just make what is on my feet at the time work and not over analyze the equipment. Snow conditions can vary so much that there are times when any ski will be perfect and other times when the skillset, ski equipment, and snow conditions just aren't talking to one another, and the best we can hope for is to survive the outing. I'd be happy skiing the 78's, 88's, or Discovery 80's on the Forest Service Road shown in your photo, with the realization that there might be conditions where it would just be a good idea to wait for better conditions, especially if falling could cause some bodily harm. Here are two photos for comparison, both taken on Forest Service Roads on soft warm snow. As a side note, when you do get set up, post a photo with you on your new equipment. A big smile will let everyone know that you found your way out of this equipment maze.

Julie Skiing Excursion 88's
20190328_152056_Moment.jpg

Me on my Traverse 78's
20200505_115453_Moment(2).jpg

The Alpina, Sporten and Asnes are,as I understand, manufactured in Czechia in the old SPORTEN/KÄSTLE Manufacturing facility.The Alpina and Sporten BC/XCD lineup are pretty much the same ski. You can find info on the Sporten website regarding the Sporten ski line but the current Alpina website basically shows only boots so one would wonder if they are phasing out the Alpina line and still promoting the Sporten line.

Tom I am wondering if Julie's go to Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 are similar to my still used Karhu XCD GTs at 205CM (62/52/58) full metal edge. They are a bit long for me but as you said survive your trip and somewhat narrower than Julie's I have never seen the Karhu with the 67 shovel before. I still run those XCDs with Alico still leather boots. The bindings are 75mm cable but no pins up front so you need the cable all the time to keep the boot in. They are a bit stiff on the flats so thinking of stepping them up a notch and mounting some NOS Salomon XADV BC manual bindings and NOS Salomon XADV BC boots.

The old cherry top skis that the XADV bindings are on are older than the Karhu XCDs. I refinished them so don't know the brand. In need of refinishing again as used wrong epoxy on top and the epoxy is cracking in tip. They are longer at 210CM and a bit wider (66/55/59) than the Karhu XCDs with no metal edge. Back then I think the tread was towards longer skis. I am not sure but I think I bought them with new with boots and poles in an Alberta snowmageddon storm in the 80s and skied back to apartment down the middle of a downtown Edmonton street as there was no cars or plows yet. They don't make this XADV combo anymore but should get another 10 years before a Rotti BC Transplant (-:

The old 75mm binding are made in Norway but no brand name. I believe I purchased the skis in the 90s. Both skis have kept their high and firm cambers over the years. The Kinetic (cool name) fish scales are starting to crack up but not gonna scrap these skis yet. Julie will understand LOL.

[Tom M]

Tom I am wondering if Julie's go to Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 are similar to my still used Karhu XCD GTs at 205CM (62/52/58) full metal edge. They are a bit long for me but as you said survive your trip and somewhat narrower than Julie's I have never seen the Karhu with the 67 shovel before. I still run those XCDs with Alico still leather boots. The bindings are 75mm cable but no pins up front so you need the cable all the time to keep the boot in. They are a bit stiff on the flats so thinking of stepping them up a notch and mounting some NOS Salomon XADV BC manual bindings and NOS Salomon XADV BC boots.

@DPO777 I've been trying to remember how old her Karhu's are. The oldest photo I have of her skiing them is dated December 1999. These were the first traction pattern skis in her quiver. At the time, Julie's favorite off trail skis were a set of Trysil-Knut wood skis that she had been skiing since 1975 and she also had a set of narrow synthetic waxable track skis. Here are some photos with some comments.
Fairly high camber, minimal sidecut

Nice curve on the tip

Made in Canada

Traction Pattern is progressive and unique

Twin groove which was unsual at the time

This off trail XC ski design was pretty radical at the time. The trend for shorter skis was just starting. Julie still loves these skis and when she saw me carrying them from the garage to be photographed, she stopped me and asked me what my intentions were. She still burns over the fact that I twisted her arm to donate her woodies years ago, so she won't let these out of her sight! She skis her Excursion 88's as off trail skis (and I think the Excursion are a better all purpose off trail ski than these Karhu's, but she uses these on the groomed trail at Game Creek when the conditions are "difficult".

[DPO777]

Tom I am wondering if Julie's go to Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 are similar to my still used Karhu XCD GTs at 205CM (62/52/58) full metal edge. They are a bit long for me but as you said survive your trip and somewhat narrower than Julie's I have never seen the Karhu with the 67 shovel before. I still run those XCDs with Alico still leather boots. The bindings are 75mm cable but no pins up front so you need the cable all the time to keep the boot in. They are a bit stiff on the flats so thinking of stepping them up a notch and mounting some NOS Salomon XADV BC manual bindings and NOS Salomon XADV BC boots.

@DPO777 I've been trying to remember how old her Karhu's are. The oldest photo I have of her skiing them is dated December 1999. These were the first traction pattern skis in her quiver. At the time, Julie's favorite off trail skis were a set of Trysil-Knut wood skis that she had been skiing since 1975 and she also had a set of narrow synthetic waxable track skis. Here are some photos with some comments.
Fairly high camber, minimal sidecut
20240211_160122.jpg
20240211_160209.jpg
20240211_160233.jpg
Nice curve on the tip
20240211_160309.jpg
Made in Canada
20240211_160339.jpg
Traction Pattern is progressive and unique
20240211_160435.jpg
Twin groove which was unsual at the time
20240211_160553.jpg
This off trail XC ski design was pretty radical at the time. The trend for shorter skis was just starting. Julie still loves these skis and when she saw me carrying them from the garage to be photographed, she stopped me and asked me what my intentions were. She still burns over the fact that I twisted her arm to donate her woodies years ago, so she won't let these out of her sight! She skis her Excursion 88's as off trail skis (and I think the Excursion are a better all purpose off trail ski than these Karhu's, but she uses these on the groomed trail at Game Creek when the conditions are "difficult".

Wow those Odyssey are an "odd see" as the name suggests. Odyssey by definition "a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes of fortune"

They are in really good shape and i would say still look pretty rad even today with those scales and the double tracking grove. I am surprised that they didn't add "Track II" to the model seeing how the Gillete Trac II was the world's first two-blade razor, debuting in 1971.

I can see why Julie keeps an eye on those and made me laugh when you got caught in the act. Us guys can't even tip toe in the dark without discovery (-:

I was quietly heading to Angie's car in the dark to grab our park pass for ski reservations tomorrow while Angie was nowhere to be see but upon entry back into the dark entry I saw shadow in the dim light and I got "what are you doing with the park pass". I could only laugh as it made me think of your picture shoot.

Those Trysil-Knut wood skis I think where made by Asnes for the North American market.

Some info on this facebook page under the ID of woodenskis.com


My Asnes wooden skis may be similar to what Julie had. Some of those woodies can still be found surfacing in good shape on facebook locally here. I am assuming Julies was around 200CM as that was the tread back then towards longer skis.

The scales on the Odyssey skis appear to be in great shape and appear similar to the "magical" Kinetic scales on my XCDs. The pattern on the Odyssey I believe were adopted by Madshus and remamed the Omnitrack. I think lilcliffy mentioned this. There was tons of Karhus up our way as we are just one over from Cowansvile QC Factory. I remember as a kid using the Karhu hockey sticks.

I would say the Odyssey skis are one version past my XCDs as the pattern design would indicate.

Tom you put my on the fly pictures to shame so I felt I better step up my game. Some shots I took (while Angie was out on a A-Play-Day) comparing the Karhu XCDs/Old Cherry Tops/Asnes Woodies.

Regarding the old wooden skis sometimes you wonder what all the fuss is about on the new skis after other than the obvious easier base waxing and such. The Asnes are are just as stiff to compress as the XCDs and they are lighter. Waxed up properly they are like rocket ships on good track. I wonder if anyone made a set that had wooden core but with plastic bottoms and metals edges. That would be like the Ole Cherry Tops on steroids. Even though the Lignostone (densified wood,plasticised, compressed beechwood) edges are pretty tough on the Asnes skis. On the woodies I still block up the camber in the off season.

These Italian skis may be the trick to fill that order.

https://www.zero-ski.com/en/products/6/zero-lignum

The tips are about equal flex stiffness on the XCDs, Asnes and the Ole Cherry Tops are a lot more flexible at the tips.

The bottom skins on the Cherries I am sure are the first generation on plastic bottoms on older wooden skis.

Thanks for the shots of Julie's Odysseys Tom and pass on to Julie sorry about the scare. Her skis are safe!

Dean

XCD scale Pattern

Ski Tip Rise

The Big Squeeze

Ole Woodies

Ole Cherry Tops

The Mighty XCDs

The old Canadian Karhu Factory

[Tom M]

My Asnes wooden skis may be similar to what Julie had. Some of those woodies can still be found surfacing in good shape on facebook locally here. I am assuming Julies was around 200CM as that was the tread back then towards longer skis.

You were spot on, Julie's woodies were 200 cm. Here is the last photo I can find of them. I took a photo of our line up of XC skis in 2014. These were just the XC skis and did not include my "telemark" skis. I guess I didn't need a photo to realize we had a problem. Funny thing is that of all those skis, the only ones we still have are the Kahru's and the RCS Skate Skis. Much of my transition in recent years has been from long and narrow wax skis to more shapely traction pattern skis. I'm older and much slower and the Alaskan snow was much more consistent in temperature than what we have here in NW Wyoming.
The caption on this photo should be "Are these skis too long or is this guy too short":)

I preferred my Fischer Europas while Julie preferred her Trysil Knut in the 80's. I skied the Europas in both 205 and 210.

[phoenix]

"@DPO777 I've been trying to remember how old her Karhu's are. The oldest photo I have of her skiing them is dated December 1999."

Those Odyssey's came out in the mid to late 90's, I believe. Karhu had a few models of that ilk at that time, and they changed their line often in that period.
I'll skip going back to find the line to quote, but, DPO777, I'd say they don't ski like your XCD-GT''s (I'm quite familiar with the GT's, have had a pair 25+ years, and we sold the Odyssey's in the shop back then). The Odyssey's were from the period when Karhu was transitioning to shorter and wider skis; you'd ski 'em in a shorter length than the GT's, and their flex and camber were different.

'fdg' was an excellent resource for this sort of historical reference, and his memory is better than mine. Bummer that he felt he had to leave.

[DPO777]

My Asnes wooden skis may be similar to what Julie had. Some of those woodies can still be found surfacing in good shape on facebook locally here. I am assuming Julies was around 200CM as that was the tread back then towards longer skis.

You were spot on, Julie's woodies were 200 cm. Here is the last photo I can find of them. I took a photo of our line up of XC skis in 2014. These were just the XC skis and did not include my "telemark" skis. I guess I didn't need a photo to realize we had a problem. Funny thing is that of all those skis, the only ones we still have are the Kahru's and the RCS Skate Skis. Much of my transition in recent years has been from long and narrow wax skis to more shapely traction pattern skis. I'm older and much slower and the Alaskan snow was much more consistent in temperature than what we have here in NW Wyoming.
The caption on this photo should be "Are these skis too long or is this guy too short":)
DSCN3065.JPG

I preferred my Fischer Europas while Julie preferred her Trysil Knut in the 80's. I skied the Europas in both 205 and 210.

Julie & Tom lawn chair.jpg

That is quite a collection of XC/XCD skis. The picture of you and Julie is classic retro.

Ah, the good ole days gone for good in all but memory.

I hear you on the transition to wider more traction skis, the strains, breaks and scrapes add up over the years.

The e99s had and still has quite a following in the Europa/Tour/Waxable/Waxless versions. I think the Tour was a bit softer on the camber than the older Europa E99 and the newer E99 ultralights that are now become the TRANSNORDIC 66 Easy Skin Xtralite. With that ski having a 66mm shovel you wonder why they never called it the E66 from the start. Maybe a Wayne Gretzky thing over a devilish 66 thing even though I hear some have done some devilish things on those E99 skis. I just picked up a new pair of E99 Crowns at clearance price.They appear to have a wild crown on them and I though my Karhu XCDs were pretty crowned. Just waiting for some NNN-BC bindings to come in along with more snow.

Fischer Marketing Finesse from early days of E99s


High performance, waxable touring skis with full metal edges Winter can't keep you inside when you have the Fischer E99 Crown Ski begging to cruise up and over the rolling, snow-caked hills. Trail or no trail, in foul weather or fair, the E99 slides smoothly uphill and provides trusty turns down moderate slopes. Full-length steel edges and lightweight Air Core construction enable stability in terrain that would throw you around while on a regular edgeless Nordic ski, so you can go out further into the hills on every tour. Whether you ski for fitness or live for the winter scenery, Fischer 's versatile E99 Nordic skis will keep you light on your feet thanks to Air Core construction.

The local snowfall has been pretty dismal this ski season with most of the park trails thinned out by rain. Hopefully we will still get the new Ontario winter snow that shows up in March.

A ski companion of mine has the E99 tour waxables (one of his go to favorite skis) so it will be interesting to see the comparison over the two regarding glide and grip. He has quite of collection of skis over the years and some similar to your collections.

Some of our Quebec neighbors where they see more snow have collected their share of the wider shapely Karhus.

The only upside of slow ski season re lack of snowfall is there is a lot of sales going on on boots and skis.

A bit counterproductive towards the goal of thinning out the herd (-:

Fisher E99 Tour with rad graphics

Wax Tune Up on friends E99 Tours. His Salomon XADV 69 Grips on my feet.

Some of those Karhu Fatties from Quebec Facebook seller testing the market for interest.

XCDS, E99s, Gamme 54s

Here's to more snow!

[Inspiredcapers]

Getting back to the Discovery 80’s, I remember them having a pretty stiff camber. If I was to go for a pair today I’d seriously consider going at least a size down so that I could compress them and utilize the scales more effectively.

[DPO777]

Tom I am wondering if Julie's go to Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 are similar to my still used Karhu XCD GTs at 205CM (62/52/58) full metal edge. They are a bit long for me but as you said survive your trip and somewhat narrower than Julie's I have never seen the Karhu with the 67 shovel before. I still run those XCDs with Alico still leather boots. The bindings are 75mm cable but no pins up front so you need the cable all the time to keep the boot in. They are a bit stiff on the flats so thinking of stepping them up a notch and mounting some NOS Salomon XADV BC manual bindings and NOS Salomon XADV BC boots.

@DPO777 I've been trying to remember how old her Karhu's are. The oldest photo I have of her skiing them is dated December 1999. These were the first traction pattern skis in her quiver. At the time, Julie's favorite off trail skis were a set of Trysil-Knut wood skis that she had been skiing since 1975 and she also had a set of narrow synthetic waxable track skis. Here are some photos with some comments.
Fairly high camber, minimal sidecut
20240211_160122.jpg
20240211_160209.jpg
20240211_160233.jpg
Nice curve on the tip
20240211_160309.jpg
Made in Canada
20240211_160339.jpg
Traction Pattern is progressive and unique
20240211_160435.jpg
Twin groove which was unsual at the time
20240211_160553.jpg
This off trail XC ski design was pretty radical at the time. The trend for shorter skis was just starting. Julie still loves these skis and when she saw me carrying them from the garage to be photographed, she stopped me and asked me what my intentions were. She still burns over the fact that I twisted her arm to donate her woodies years ago, so she won't let these out of her sight! She skis her Excursion 88's as off trail skis (and I think the Excursion are a better all purpose off trail ski than these Karhu's, but she uses these on the groomed trail at Game Creek when the conditions are "difficult".

Tom I showed my friend Dave your pictures of the Karhu Odyssey skis. He remembers them but couldn't quite pinpoint the date down but 2000s close. He dropped off some Karhu Orions for me to take some shots and have a look at. He bought them when they were all the rave so thinking around the 2000s but maybe before the Karhu 10th Mountain fatter skis.

Pretty soft camber on them and not much sidecut. Imagine as he mentioned you would have to press them hard to tele turn. If you had a better idea of the date or have skied them before, that would be interesting info to hear.

I understand from others that some had factory defects on the metal edge angles and after figuring that out fix er uppers would regrind the edges with a better angle for turning and cutting in.

Double digits up here now, still waiting or should say hoping for an Indian winter. (-:

[DPO777]

My Asnes wooden skis may be similar to what Julie had. Some of those woodies can still be found surfacing in good shape on facebook locally here. I am assuming Julies was around 200CM as that was the tread back then towards longer skis.

You were spot on, Julie's woodies were 200 cm. Here is the last photo I can find of them. I took a photo of our line up of XC skis in 2014. These were just the XC skis and did not include my "telemark" skis. I guess I didn't need a photo to realize we had a problem. Funny thing is that of all those skis, the only ones we still have are the Kahru's and the RCS Skate Skis. Much of my transition in recent years has been from long and narrow wax skis to more shapely traction pattern skis. I'm older and much slower and the Alaskan snow was much more consistent in temperature than what we have here in NW Wyoming.
The caption on this photo should be "Are these skis too long or is this guy too short":)
DSCN3065.JPG

I preferred my Fischer Europas while Julie preferred her Trysil Knut in the 80's. I skied the Europas in both 205 and 210.

Julie & Tom lawn chair.jpg

Think that is it for the snow

Just doing some spring cleaning. I think I went too deep...

The Karhu 220CM may be good for spring board training. Other 215,210 and 200s in the bunch.

This is just the half of the old XC stuff. If I was down your way I would sneak over and lean those 200CM Asnes against your wall. (-:

Yikes guess it may be time to start thinning the herd. We will see what snow next winter brings for the last ride...

Older XC skis