Very grippy wax suggestion for demanding uphill terrain?

[Lubega6]

Hey there guys.

I recently introduced my girlfriend to backcountry XC skiing and she bought a pair of Transnordic 59s with kicker skins. We're both very happy with her choice so far.

However, we're planning on tackling more demanding terrain soon (Chic Chocs in Gaspésie, most probably), which I would normally tackle with Asnes X-Skins. Since she doesn't have top budget yet, I was thinking of trying some very grippy wax in a generous amount. I once crossed paths with a guy who just had this massive layer of grippy wax under his skis, climbing the same slopes as we all did with our X skins/full skins during the Laurentides Traverse (Tranversée des Laurentides).

Any product recommendation? We're probably talking the "grippiest" stuff on the market (or alternatives).

Looking forward to read you guys.

[mca80]

What will you do about the kick wax once you reach the top and don't need such grip? Because to get the kinda grip you want for climbing you won't be gliding.

To keep it simple, I say Start Oslo Violet. It is a mix of regular wax, tar and klister.

[lilcliffy]

@Lubega6
How much experience do you have with grip and kick wax?

[Lubega6]

To keep it simple, I say Start Oslo Violet. It is a mix of regular wax, tar and klister.

Verification: https://www.gearwest.com/products/start ... e-kick-wax

@Lubega6
How much experience do you have with grip and kick wax?

Her: none.
Me: very low. I usually ski waxless or with skins.

[mca80]

That is the wax. The problem is if you use inappropriate, overly grippy wax, you will basically just be walking, not skiing, and with globs of snow stuck to the bottom, to the point where it builds up to where you then cant even walk. You would be far better off with skins.

[lilcliffy]

How much experience do you have with grip and kick wax?

Her: none.
Me: very low. I usually ski waxless or with skins.

Ok!
As a first note- the skier you observed- effectively climbing and touring without skins- on grip wax alone- knew what they were doing- and they were not using the "grippiest stuff on the market"...

This isn't an "internet myth"- one can efficiently ski tour in hilly/steep terrain on just grip-kick wax→ I spend most of local touring season on grip wax alone- and get a superb balance of grip and glide.

A few basics to start-
First principle- grip-kick waxes/klisters are classified by snow temperature and condition-
the colder the snow- the harder the grip-kick wax
the warmer the snow- the softer the grip-kick wax

Some intial BMPs:
- start with the hardest (ie coldest) wax you think you can get away with
- if it is not enough grip→ first add a thicker layer of the same wax;
- if it is still not enough grip when climbing→ extend the grip wax onto the shovel
- if you want to climb an extended steep slope/trail→ extend the grip wax onto the tail- to hold the ski on the slope (ie similar to a full-length climbing skin)
- if you are still not getting enough grip→ add a layer of the next softer (ie warmer) wax on top

Do not start with the "grippiest" stuff you have→ if the grip wax is too soft (ie warm) for the snow, the snow will stick to your ski base and you will come to a grinding halt.

If you are using a highly cambered Nordic touring ski- with a significant wax pocket- you can get away with a grippier kick wax in the wax pocket (ie kick zone), as the kick zone will fully release when you stride fowards; and will only be engaged when the kick zone is fully engaged with the snow.

If you are using a less cambered ski that is tuned for deep snow and/or steep terrain- you will want to err on the side of harder (ie colder) grip wax, because the kick zone of the ski will not fully disengage with the snow→ use more and longer hard wax long before moving to a softer wax.

[Lubega6]

Some intial BMPs:
- start with the hardest (ie coldest) wax you think you can get away with
- if it is not enough grip→ first add a thicker layer of the same wax;
- if it is still not enough grip when climbing→ extend the grip wax onto the shovel
- if you want to climb an extended steep slope/trail→ extend the grip wax onto the tail- to hold the ski on the slope (ie similar to a full-length climbing skin)
- if you are still not getting enough grip→ add a layer of the next softer (ie warmer) wax on top

Simple, yet, golden advice there. Thank you for the time you took to explain this to a newbie. We'll start from there and build up experience

I have always been surprised and pleased by the amount of politeness / non judgementalness I got from Telemark Talk. If I asked the same question on Reddit, people would probably have roasted me off the thread. I once nearly got death threats for something similar (typical Reddit stuff).

[fisheater]

Always carry a wax scraper with you. Things change sometimes, you start sticking and snow/ice stick to the bottom of your skis. You need to be able to scrape off the stickier (warmer) wax and apply a colder wax. I usually have a small kit in my pack, 3 or 4 tins of wax to cover temperatures. Below 25 degrees F, it is much easier. I also carry the scraper and a cork.

[JohnSKepler]

Remember, it's always okay to wax past the heel. For the longest time I'd start the kick wax at some point about foot above my toe and stop waxing at my heel. I was, for the most part, unsatisfied with the performance of the wax and started using kicker skins more and more which, frankly, suck for glide. SUCK.

This weekend I was out on a groomed road with a classic track. It was okay but has been through some freeze thaw cycles. My grip was crap and I stopped to put my kickers on when I remembered that someone had said on this forum at some point to try putting on some kick wax a littler lower on the ski. So I extended it, Toko Yellow, about four inches past my heel right on top of the Toko Blue I'd ironed in a few weeks ago. Laid on a light coat and corked it in. Took about five minutes from the time I stopped to when I started. WOW! Completely different ski! Virtually NO slide backs unless it was just pretty much solid ice and then I just had to be more careful.

I guess I really need to gear up, clip in, in my kitchen, and check to see where the ski is making contact. Instead of just guessing where the wax goes, get some empirical data.

Good luck and please share back what works.

[The GCW]

Lubega6,

While You’re receptive, a couple more tips I learned here; Start with the colder wax also because if You start with warmer wax, the colder wax may not adhere as well and sometimes, You may feel the need to scrape off the warm wax to then put on colder wax. Also, for warmer waxes, buff with the synthetic cork because it may gum up Your natural cork. Something else that’s helped Me is to not buff the final coat of wax rigorously; just barely at all in some instances. I think I recall not buffing the final layer at all.

& now I’m learning to consider waxing al little behind the heal plate in certain instances.

This is nice place.