the Nordic Ice Skating Thread

[tkarhu]

@telerat Might it depend on blade height, whether you need risers with 75 mm? My Zandstra NIS’s have 43-44 mm binding install height, which feels like plenty of clearance.

[telerat]

Maximum lean angle will of course depend on blade height, and I measured it now on Lundhags T-Skate which is 40mm high to top of skate where binding is mounted: With Rottefella Super Telemark I got 43°, with Xplore 49° and with NNN (Atomic pro-link) I got 52°. I assume regular NNN-BC will be close to NNN and the magnum (which I would not choose on skates) closer to Xplore. What is sufficient depends on the skater.

Isvidda Flex has identical height to T-Skate, but many more holes for mounting bindings.

[mca80]

Sorry to rehash, gonna call a shop and ask them for advice as well and order something tomorrow. Want a good beginner all around skate I guess. I would be open to having 2 skates for different ice/objectives down the road but maybe start with whatever can do most things acceptably to start. Took my CCM hockey skates out today, first ice skate since I am afraid of lakes usually and the local natural ice rink has not been open. There was 15cm of ice per the fisherman, so more than enough, and about 2cm snow more or less. We have no snow in extended forecast. I decided after this mornings rock ski 5k this was the last day for even rock skis for a few weeks, more grass and maple leaves than snow. But, I need to get out and do something. I like to tour and glide at a lesiurely pace on skates, but I also intersperse this with all-out sprinting to get my heart rate up, either short sprints or long, and because it is fun and what I have known since 3 years of age going fast in hockey skates. I really like sprinting. If the tiny ice rink were open I would sprint back and forth for 4 or 5 minutes then cruise leisurely 10+ then do it again. And repeat this cycle until I got bored or wasn't fit enough to keep going.

So, the conditions here _usually_ are cold and somewhat snowy. Most years any skating season is short, early season and spring, and that's it. Some years, like this, and several years ago, and a decade before that, you have enough cold for sufficient ice and minimal snow. What kind and size skates does one want for this? Also, my options for boots are nnn combi boot, nnnbc moderate stiffness/cuff, 75mm super stiff or moderate stiff but high cuff. I have a spare nnnbc binding sitting around.

Thanks if anyone gets this in time before I get to talking to the shop. I waited too long to get situated but after seeing guys ice fish I realized I didn't need to be scared and wait for 30cm ice to go skate.

Also for anyone out there reading, would Crispi Svartisen make a good nordic skate boot?

[John Dee]

We have good ice now after the rain. This weekend will be great. Then it will get warm after Christmas. Yesterday the temps hadn't plunged, and a 5 inch drill showed some water, but today it was all ice. I can chip up the surface of the ice pretty easily with my hefty ski pole, so I'm wondering if maybe 6 inches of ice isn't always 6 inches of ice?

The ice is cracked from water level changes, and the large pieces occasionally move from your weight. Where the cracks intersect, there are smaller pieces, and you think these might not hold you, but they don't move. They must be locked in good.

[wabene]

I did see a photo somewhere that had a 3 pin Mountaineer on a Nordic skate with a DIY looking heel lock down. To me my 75mm Svartisen on a skate with the heel locked down would be a super comfortable hockey skate

[mca80]

I ordered a Zandstra NIS in 45 with mounting hardware to accomodate any bimding. Now the question is what boot/binding?

I have a spare nnnbc with red flexor, and Alpina 1600 which are warm and fairly stiff but lower cuff than, and not quite as stiff, as Alaska. So either that, or buy a new nnnbc boot that is stiffer with buckles and such (Crispi Svartisen?), or get a high quality skate boot and binding, although this likely won't be as warm or comfortable.

What would be the best attributes of a nordic skating boot? Stiffness in sole--torsionally, but what about fore-aft? High, stiff cuff? If anyone can tell me what makes a good nordic skate boot it would be appreciated, thanks.

Edit: @wabene, are those yours with the 75mm cable?

[tkarhu]

We have good ice now after the rain. This weekend will be great. Then it will get warm after Christmas. Yesterday the temps hadn't plunged, and a 5 inch drill showed some water, but today it was all ice. I can chip up the surface of the ice pretty easily with my hefty ski pole, so I'm wondering if maybe 6 inches of ice isn't always 6 inches of ice?

The ice is cracked from water level changes, and the large pieces occasionally move from your weight. Where the cracks intersect, there are smaller pieces, and you think these might not hold you, but they don't move. They must be locked in good.

Sorry for a late answer. You are 100 % right, five inches of ice can be different things. For example, if you have freshly frozen ”estuary” or brackish sea water, you need double the thickness of lake water black ”steel” ice to carry same weight.

Where two cracks cross, durability is only a quarter of the durability of intact ice. A safety measure is to ice skate only in places, where you can climb up if ice breaks. Then ice is always cracked. Five inches ks still quite durable. Weakest ice is spring ice that sun has smelted to a stick or pillar like construction. In those conditions, you will fall through five inches, and even thicker ice.

EDIT if there are two layers of ice with water in between, normal rules of thumb do not apply. You should calculate each layer separately, I think.

[telerat]

@mca80 I have written a bit about boots and bindings earlier in case you have not read it:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... =30#p57524
I think Alpina Alaska BC/75 would be a nice boot, as well as Crispi Svartisen/Futura CXP, Alfa Skaget and Alfa Free. Those that go skating actively on clap skates have quite low uppers though, so height is probably a crutch for us that are not as skilled. I would just try the Alpina 1600s on some shorter outings and see how it goes.

I have also tried Riva 3 with high boots (Asolo Extreme) but did not like it much, both from heel lift resistance and poor boot fit, but good luck @wabene I would not want a fixed heel on Nordic skates; then I would bring my hockey skates as they have a much smaller turn radius. So far Xplore with the normal flexor is what feels best and I do not think I want a stiffer flexor, but I have not tried the hard flexor yet, nor any NNN-BC boot/binding. Comfortable and warm enough are likely the main properties that matters on boots. Good luck.

@John Dee I assume the cracked pieces are closer to shore? Always be sure of ice thickness. The ice can be quite thick even though it moves from body weight. An ice screw or drill with flat drill bit is good for checking how thick the ice. 10cm/4" of relatively clear homogenous ice is usually counted as safe, but it will wary so you need some basic knowledge of where it can be thinner. I have skated on ice as thin as 5cm/2", but then you need more equipment, knowledge and/or be ready for a bath. Always bring icespikes no matter the thickness!

Lastly, I saw a video of Apetor linked earlier. He looks quite insane, but his videos are very entertaining. He was supposedly very safety aware, but I would not recreate many of his stunts and he unfortunately died in one of them in November 2021. I do however recommend Nordic skating to anyone that likes to ski.

[wabene]

@telerat said, "I have also tried Riva 3 with high boots (Asolo Extreme) but did not like it much, both from heel lift resistance and poor boot fit, but good luck @wabene I would not want a fixed heel on Nordic skates; then I would bring my hockey skates as they have a much smaller turn radius. So far Xplore with the normal flexor is what feels best and I do not think I want a stiffer flexor, but I have not tried the hard flexor yet, nor any NNN-BC boot/binding. Comfortable and warm enough are likely the main properties that matters on boots. Good luck."
Yes that makes sense about the hockey skates, I was just mentioning something I saw. I never much cared for skating, the skates just crushed my wide flat feet. I tried again about 10 years ago with a girlfriend and her kids but would have to sit down for a while every 5 minutes. It was still fun so when I heard about Nordic skates here I was interested. Since there is no snow the local shop sold out of them right away, so they aren't available locally. I do have comfortable Crispi 75mm Svartisens and BC Nordland Hooks. I'm guessing you would say the BC boot would be better. In this case my 75mm boot has much more ankle support, but is heavier. Whaddya think?

@mca80 no those are not my skates.

[telerat]

@wabeneMy feet also do not agree with hockey skates, but I believe many of them can be thermoformed. Both your boots sounds fine, so it depends on which you prefer and what bindings you have/prefer. Many find 75mm bindings fine. NNN-BC boots can be better for hiking and bindings take up less space so packing skates are easier. I would not worry too much with the weight. Both are good options, and you can always remount later if you change your mind. Good luck.

I saw a couple of comments on skate length. It is a dependent on foot size and personal preference; longer skates are more stable, both forward and backwards depending on mounting position, while shorter skates turn faster and can be more fun. Good luck.