Rottefella are you out there listening?

[mca80]

These bindings are fading from the market for a few reasons. First, because the patent has expired and the competitive nature of the market is squeezing out any money making potential. Second, because enough people who skied them… a lot (myself included) found something they preferred more. Third, because boot manufacturers are withdrawing their support for the binding.

None of that may matter to you though. If you like them, you like them. But it can take time skiing anything before gaining an informed position things.

1, how long ago was there a patent on 75mm and some kind of heel mechanism, and if so what was it like? I see a whole slew of 75mm bindings with cables, springs, hardwires, etc. over the past 40 years from different makers, so just trying to understand the situation.

2. No response except to say there's gotta be a strong contingent of old farts still clinging to the system. For now.

3. Certainly with full force re plastic boots, there may only be 1 or 2 left if not mistaken, but there are some leather bootmakers who are still continuing--Crispi even came out with a (semi-) new boot in the Bre and I think Andrew still makes several models for 3pins.

Re last sentence/paragraph, very true. Still waiting for snow so I can try 3pins for the first time, as my whole 3 year exposure to nordic/xcd gear is nnn and nnnbc. Hard to think, though, that a system that was around over a century and the standard for most of that time simply disappears. The history is a major part of why I am even headed that route for now, plus the "freedom" as it were.

[JohnSKepler]

I also like, where appropriate, internal combustion engines, carburetors, manual transmissions, and human-generated writing and speech. There’s even some satisfaction in winding a watch. I’m not hoping to make products for sale or competitive use. Intellectual stimulation, crafting things by hand, and collaborating are there own reward. If the things one designs also work it’s icing on the cake.

[Manney]

These bindings are fading from the market for a few reasons. First, because the patent has expired and the competitive nature of the market is squeezing out any money making potential. Second, because enough people who skied them… a lot (myself included) found something they preferred more. Third, because boot manufacturers are withdrawing their support for the binding.

None of that may matter to you though. If you like them, you like them. But it can take time skiing anything before gaining an informed position things.

1, how long ago was there a patent on 75mm and some kind of heel mechanism, and if so what was it like? I see a whole slew of 75mm bindings with cables, springs, hardwires, etc. over the past 40 years from different makers, so just trying to understand the situation.

2. No response except to say there's gotta be a strong contingent of old farts still clinging to the system. For now.

3. Certainly with full force re plastic boots, there may only be 1 or 2 left if not mistaken, but there are some leather bootmakers who are still continuing--Crispi even came out with a (semi-) new boot in the Bre and I think Andrew still makes several models for 3pins.

Re last sentence/paragraph, very true. Still waiting for snow so I can try 3pins for the first time, as my whole 3 year exposure to nordic/xcd gear is nnn and nnnbc. Hard to think, though, that a system that was around over a century and the standard for most of that time simply disappears. The history is a major part of why I am even headed that route for now, plus the "freedom" as it were.

Patents are almost universal… 20 years. Wasn’t always that way tho.

The Rotte patents on the 3 pins and wires/cables expired well before we were born @mca80. That’s why we see them from a host of manufacturers going back decades. The lack of patent control also explains the production differences, like clamping irregularities, which would never be allowed to pass if IP was enforced and royalties were collected.

It costs less than $10 to knock out most 3 pin bindings. Sheet steel of just about any composition can be sourced anywhere. An industrial press can be operated by unskilled button monkey.

Boots are different. They’re cut, sewn, moulded, shaped, bonded etc. Lots of production steps and different materials to stock. So if the sales aren’t forthcoming, there’s no sense even holding onto the tooling or even skilled labor. Material suppliers change lines all the time and sourcing the exact fabrics and hides can be a bitch. All of this is why boot makers are the first to bail out when sales drop. A few artisans may continue to cling on but we both know what happens to the price in that case.

Ppl holding on to gear is understandable. Having to buy new boots/bindings is not cheap. But anyone who has more than three pairs of boots or bindings plus half a dozen skis can’t exactly stand on parsimony. At a certain point, they need to bite the bullet and accept that the cost of boot replacement may require a serious rethink on the binding system. That’s the price of progress.

[Lhartley]

The thing is that there's just so much old usable gear out there, and it can be acquired for cheap because people have moved on to ntn and AT and view the forgotten tele setup in their garage as old and obsolete. Personally ive acquired around 8 bindings between nnn bc and 3 pin for the price id pay for 1 pair of ntn bindings. Freeheellife podcast at one point made an appeal to people to KEEP all their old setups and just lend the setup to newcomers to the sport instead of selling, I guess to curb the glut of pre-owned gear.

[Manney]

LOL. FHL sells gear, right? Of course they don’t want to see used gear competing with new at 10 cents on the dollar.

The glut of new gear is quite high this season. Lots of pre-season sales. More than previous years… including the COVID years when all the altruistic retailers came to the rescue with inflated prices (based on stock purchased in the previous year at regular wholesale prices from manufacturers and distributors).

Good story though… only lend out your old gear so it can be sent to the landfill after your estate sale.

[Lhartley]

On the contrary, a cheap setup can be a gateway to tele. I buy all the new shit eventually

[Manney]

The most important sales season for any retailer is THIS season.

[Lhartley]

Just ordered new KOM's for the lady, doing my part!

[Manney]

Did you sell your MR 190s? Seems to be a lot of interest in that model lately…

[Lhartley]

Nope still in my living room wrapped in pool noodles haha. I'm not hurting to sell them, I have the wax version and I can keep skin version for spring, gives me a reason to lose weight