Learning Telemark on Scaled Skis

[WinterWoodsman]

Hello Tele-World! Hope you all are getting pumped. I certainly am. I have a quick question here for the experienced tele skiers that might have a minute to answer. I am committed to taking tele lessons this year and really making some progress. I have been mostly goofing around on nordic cambered skis with Scott Excursions and having fun but getting nowhere. Going to go ahead and get some true downhill skis and stiffer boots to make the learning process more productive. I am however coming from more of a XC background with little downhill experience, likely to do some pretty mellow tours about once a week for 5 months a year or so. Is it more difficult to learn to tele on downhill skis that have scales vs. smooth bases? I don't plan on owning multiple tele skis at this point and I think the scaled skis will fit with the actual touring I will do. Otherwise I will get standard smooth base tele skis if they are easier to learn on for some reason. Thanks in advance to all of you. Have a super day!!

[spopepro]

It’s probably fine, depending on which scaled skis you’re talking about.

The only thing you’ll notice is that it’s a little hard to get an ideal slope. The scales on skis like the objective noticeably kill momentum until around 5 degrees slope or so. Just a little steeper and it starts to get too fast for many people learning. So it’s not *ideal* but hasn’t really stopped anyone (including me—I took my first tele lessons on my scaled objectives once I decided to get serious about tele skiing.)

[WinterWoodsman]

thanks very much for the response. I am considering the summit cone vagabond BC 97. I could just forget scales and go for the summit cone outcast 97c. Just looking for something that will be good to learn on. I have used mostly scaled skis in the past but maybe I should just forget it and go smooth base for learning purposes? Thanks!

[Manney]

Ppl may disagree but the myth of “learner skis” needs addressing. The closest manufacturers come is catering to the rental market with a “blah” ski that is tough as nuts. After all, anyone showing up at a hill to rent will take whatever is on offer and there’s no benefit to hills that bulk buy anything terribly particular. So “blah” is what’s out there… and “blah” isn’t all that bad. Better than an edgy, light ski that operates best on an edge you’re not ready for.

Some things may be more difficult to live with than others… cambered skis being one standout. Width? Sure but how long is a piece of string? So many things to consider. Sidecut? Ditto. A ski with big side cut will turn all day long… sometimes even when a beginner doesn’t want to turn hard enough to spin out. Rocker needed for pow. Scales are a bit further down the list… but so much depends on where you’re going… for example, no sense even thinking about scales if you’re riding the lifts. But scales worth considering for climbs in milder conditions where wax can be hit and miss).

It’s best to approach a ski purchase with a sense of realism, what’s the defining nature of your ski location? Big pow, quickly consolidating, wet mush? Part of your future lifestyle or just for kicks? Start there and consider width, rocker, side cut.

Next, consider it’s going to take time to learn. A few years. Seriously. At that point, you’ll *start* to have an idea what suits you best. Nobody else can reliably do that at this stage of the game.

Hold off purchasing decisions until after your first lesson. Use rental gear. Your instructor will be familiar with the characteristics of these, which takes a variable out of the equation when assessing your basic skiing competency and enthusiasm for the sport. Based on that assessment… and location… your instructor might be able to recommend a ski. It could be something marketed as a ski for a novice… or novice-to-intermediate… or intermediate. Maybe it’s a great price or value. No need to get excited about such labels at this point. Half of it is bs anyway. (Try selling an expensive ski labelled “beginner”. Ha ha.)

It’s gotta be better than spitballing ideas based on a very incomplete sense of your location (see your state in your profile, but that’s pretty general), level of ambition/motivation, athletic ability, level of ski sense, etc.

[phoenix]

"Going to go ahead and get some true downhill skis and stiffer boots to make the learning process more productive."I am however coming from more of a XC background with little downhill experience, likely to do some pretty mellow tours about once a week for 5 months a year or so."
It may seem counterintuitive, but "true downhill skis" and stiffer boots will in all likelihood be more difficult for you to learn on than a more familiar, more forgiving set up, given you don't have experience with "downhill", and are coming from xc.
I'd suggest keeping your Excursions, since you already have them and know the feel, plus they have a flex that makes it seasy to pressure the ball of your foot, which is key in having any real solidity. Those, and a moderately soft and forgiving alpine ski, or one of the older tele-specific tried and true skis would be a better choice. And there are loads of used tele skis in Colorado; take a look at the Craigslist sites anywhere around the Rockies.

"I don't plan on owning multiple tele skis at this point and I think the scaled skis will fit with the actual touring I will do. Otherwise I will get standard smooth base tele skis if they are easier to learn on for some reason."
This will depend on conditions, steepness of slope, and a few other factors, but a smooth base will turn more easily in general. That said, a scaled ski can turn just fine; but on low angled slopes the drag is noticeable and can make the ski reluctant to turn. Scales are also sketchier on true hardpack or use, but that's probably not an issue where you are.

I don't know that Rossi ski you're looking at, but if you want a ski for tours and turns, watch out for too much camber. Also keep in mind that realistically, learning to tele might be a longer learning curve if you're only able to get out once a week.





Is it more difficult to learn to tele on downhill skis that have scales vs. smooth bases?"

[fisheater]

I really think you got some good advice. I don’t know anything about the Rossi you are speaking of, so I can’t comment. If it’s one of the scaled Rossi’s, I would advise you stay away. A paulowania air core ski doesn’t cut it at the resort.
I really liked the advice from @phoenix regarding the older skis. I really believe modern skis are just too wide underfoot for beginning downhill skiers, especially at the resort. I also think it is important to have a ski designed to ski resort conditions. Backcountry snow is different from hard packed and skied resort snow. A little heavier resort ski will serve you better at the resort. You might be able to find one with bindings cheap enough that you can still buy this scaled Summit Cone Vagabonds for the backcountry.
I haven’t skied a lot at resorts for many years. Since I didn’t do it often, I have just skied light backcountry gear. I good conditions that is a lot of fun. I’m not so good conditions, the handicap of light gear was obvious, but I didn’t care, because riding chairs wasn’t my thing. After 20 years of not riding chairs, it became apparent to me that I do need the reps that riding chairs provides. Not that I’m giving up the backcountry, just that riding a chair once a week will bring me back to form. I did buy a resort ski for this endeavor, but it isn’t a paulowania core, it’s a birch/poplar with some vibration damping as well. It’s a resort ski. Damn if I’m going to have people blow by me! Just saying !
I think you would be most happy to follow Phoenix’s advice. Manny was leading you down a similar road. @spopepro advice was also very good, I just think you will be much happier on a resort ski

[Lhartley]

I'll throw in a vote for scales. You can throw them in the back of your truck and stop at any slopes on the way home from work for some quick laps for practice.

[JB TELE]

I first started on a loaner pair of wide NTN skis. Then I switched to scarpa T2 75mm with voile hypervector BC scaled skis. Last season I started only skiing on leather mostly on my s-bound 98s.

At some point when I first got started on the NTN skis, I tried a backcountry crosscountry set up and felt super out of control. I couldn't even straight line down something without falling. Last season after a previous season of skiing on plastic and wider skis, it was surprisingly not difficult for me to transition to leather boots and skinny skis.

I do feel like the plastic boots and more downhill oriented skis help me learn the turn and I would have had a rougher time all around if I started learning on the backcountry nordic gear.

Used tele gear is plentifully cheap at used gear stores, thrift stores, facebook marketplace, or even ebay if you don't mind paying for shipping. It's not hard to plastic tele boots and downhill oriented skis for under $100 total. Sometimes you can find free gear.

[WinterWoodsman]

Thanks very much you guys for all of the advice. Very interesting. It sounds like some have had a quicker time learning on the beefier NTN setup but others recommend trying something more 3 pin with skinnier skis. In my mind, I had sort of already decided that learning tele on a more stiff boot and NTN setup would help me find my groove more easily. I will be sure to circle back around to the 3 pin skinnies to really feel the technique and focus on keeping that ball of the foot down. I do have some nice Scott Excursions with molded intuition liners that I can press back into service to enjoy a balanced approach.

Interesting the comment about once a week not being enough to learn tele. I live on the Front Range of Colorado in a spot where any amount of winter snow is about 1.5 hours drive each way to get to. There really is no snow to ski on unless I drive to it. That said I am not in a hurry to learn and I feel pretty committed to floundering for a handful of years if necessary. My plan is to hit the resort once weekly and lap all day.

I don't think I mentioned Rossi skis at all in my post unless I typo'ed. I think I might try out a pair of Summit Cone Outcast 97c's with some 22 Designs Lynx bindings and some Crispi Shiver boots. I dunno. Regardless, as one or more of you mentioned, the setup is not super important as I have no clue what I am doing!! But thats ok. I am hoping to find joy in the journey and not the destination. Thanks again very much all. Such a great resource to be able to connect with you all. Have a super fantastic season.

[fisheater]

@WinterWoodsman when I stated I decided to purchase a dedicated downhill ski I didn’t mention the ski.The ski I choose was the Summit Cone Pariah, a piste oriented ski to ski on piste. I’m not learning, but after skiing on piste occasionally for more than ten years, I know beyond a doubt a piste oriented ski is superior on piste snow.