Breathable Mid Layer

[JB TELE]

A simple 100 weight fleece: https://www.mountainhardwear.com/p/mens ... _color=425
This jacket is not as warm as an R1.

[wabene]

If you don't like wool touching your torso, just use it for mid layers (OP ∆) and start with base layer of your liking. Of course wicking material is best, silk is good. Some like synthetics, but they get smelly. I just don't think fleece breathes like wool.

[Manney]

Agree with this @wabene. Synthetic fleeces suck for anything involving moderate to intense physical activity. They’re gloried sweat bags unless there is a breeze flowing through them, which defeats the whole point of an insulating layer.

Gotta stay away from cotton and poly cotton base layers too. Chill factories.

[TallGrass]

I run extremely hot when touring. I often ski in a hoody base layer and soft shell pants. When I get cold I try throwing on my mid layer but end up getting way too hot and sweating like a pig. I tried the Pataguci R1 and Arc’teryx Proton but those are way too hot and end up taking them off. Any recommendations to try for this season?

Skip insulation. Go with wind break, like a OR hardshell that has torso vents ("TorsoFlo") which you can open like "pit zips" all the way to the hem, or unzip from the hem UP to wear it more like a poncho. Same for legs if needed.

I have a Furio (discontinued?) but other products pull up for TorsoFlo.
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blogs/s ... ki-jackets

By playing around with the zips you can find the balance of blocking wind and trapping some warmth against letting air in to cool you and carry away perspiration.

Also look into loose-weave sweaters of varying thickness. They act like open cells to let your base layer breath, and as you cover or zip up a shell over them they move toward closed-cell dead-air insulation.

[Theme]

Try Polartec Alpha layers - preferrably the 60g/m² weight to start with, I find the 90 g/m² a bit too warm. Senchi Designs, Farpointe... there are plenty of small businesses making these. Very ultralight as well, and they dry extremely quick. Breathability is only limited by your outer layer (maybe consider a more breathable option as well). If you only have these on and nothing else, even the tiniest bit of air movement will make you feel cold. It is basically a fluffy mesh.

Mountain Hardwear Airmesh was the midlayer before those Alpha layers came around. You could also try a very light fleece like Kuiu Peloton 97. Patagonia Thermal Weight is my suggestion for all-round mid-layer use in most situations. There are other similar power grid layers around as well. Some thinner, some thicker.

More advanced fleece options are way better than wool. Wool retains a lot of moisture, fleece doesn't

[wabene]

@Theme "More advanced fleece options are way better than wool. Wool retains a lot of moisture, fleece doesn't".
You typed two sentences here. The second is mostly true but over stated. A better sentence would be; while both fabrics retain moisture, fleece drys more quickly.

Your first sentence is simply your opinion which I disagree with.

If you are going to be objective about comparing wool and fleece, you will find they are very evenly matched with their own advantages and disadvantages. Take the sentence above; fleece drys more quickly. Yes, but wool retains it's insulation properties while wet, but fleece losses is insulation properties while wet. We could go on down the line, point and counterpoint and end up with what we have here, two very evenly matched fabrics. It then comes down to a personal choice.

There are those that applaud all of our species technological advancements as the end all and be all. In 1979 fleece was invented as yet another amazing use for petroleum. Well now we are literally swimming in the stuff. Some companies will tout their green practices, hey maybe they will even farm the stuff from the Texas sized island in the Pacific. Or maybe they can mine it from the micro particles that surround us. Yes we know the fabric gets smelly almost instantly, but hey we have a chemical we can apply that will kill those microbes. Anyone who has hiked in the rain during summer months knows you have two choices, even with the most "breathable" high tech synthetic, wear it and get wet from sweat or take it off and get wet from rain. In my experience the real world claims of these high tech products are dubious at best.

Humans have been wearing wool for thousands of years. As long as we take care in how we decide to obtain that wool, it will be my choice where it makes sense. Of course I do have synthetic clothing items I wear while skiing down the hill on my wood, metal and yes plastic skis, lol.

[spopepro]

One consistent bummer about this place is the way some folks get militant about wool/waxed cotton/fleece/goretex. Each has their place.

For the OP—are you meadow skipping or touring for turns? If you’re touring for turns I’d go with a slightly warmer base layer and an insulated jacket that is easy to put on/remove in the transitions and just skip the mid layer. If you’re meadow skipping then I’d grab a lightweight softshell. There are very lightweight ones, like the OR ferrosi, or mid weight with zips, like the mammut ultimate 6.

[wabene]

One consistent bummer about this place is the way some folks get militant about wool/waxed cotton/fleece/goretex. Each has their place.

For the OP—are you meadow skipping or touring for turns? If you’re touring for turns I’d go with a slightly warmer base layer and an insulated jacket that is easy to put on/remove in the transitions and just skip the mid layer. If you’re meadow skipping then I’d grab a lightweight softshell. There are very lightweight ones, like the OR ferrosi, or mid weight with zips, like the mammut ultimate 6.

Militant? That is laughable. I think in my post I also stated I use both synthetic and wool. For example I have the Ferrosi you mention and use it if it is cold and windy enough. I feel people, including myself, get caught up in technology and it is important to remember it isn't always the answer. Simple as that.
The consistent arrogance of some is also a bummer, give me a break spopepro.

[Krummholz]

I use a wicking layer next to the body like Columbia OmniWick, Smartwool base layer as the mid layer, soft shell as the outer layer. This is my all around combo for temps in the mid teens to mid twenties. For me the hard part has been finding an outer shell that stops the wind yet breathes.

[Manney]

Yes. Outer shells are tough ones. Gortex shells doen’t work in very cold conditions imho. Water vapor exiting the insulation layer condenses rapidly on the inside of the shell.

Two reasons for this… First, the micro pores in Gortex coatings shrink in the cold. Second, the rapid temperature differential between the inner and outer temperatures cause instant condensation. The shell is overwhelmed by condensation and wets out on the inside.

Gortex was never designed for this kind of use. It was meant to be waterproof on the outside and somewhat vapor permeable on the inside, providing better relative comfort than impermeable materials or coatings. It best delivers on this promise in mild temperatures… blocking droplets on the outside and allowing vapor on the inside to escape.

My el cheapo Under Armor shell (bought on sale for $30 at a UA outlet in upstate NY) manages moisture and blocks wind in cold temperatures better than my Outdoor Research Gortex shell (bought on sale for over $200 at an outfitter). If it’s a dry cold with no wind, my tight weave Icebreaker 400 gsm merino wool hoodie is the best at keeping me warm and dry on the inside.

Might have different views if skiing in the PNW, where warmer wetter outdoor conditions slow the rate of internal condensation… my Gortex shell is “the bomb” in spring skiing here. Great for MTB in rain storms too.