So I bought a pair of 2022 Fischer Spider 62s for 250$ CAD ($180 USD). I have two questions for you guys.

[Manney]

And another thing… any statement about a “slow skinny ski” ignores certain truths.

Lots of skinny DH skis years back. Dimensions not unlike the Spyders mentioned… Skiers were suffering horrendous injuries due to the speeds that were being generated on those things. All measured by trap times, so objective measurement. FIS regs changed, the recreational industry followed.

Don’t see skinny skis on the slopes much any more… except under the feet of now-ancient dudes who kept theirs. So now the popular narrative is that narrower skis are slow? LOL. The older guys are being age-sensible and skiing their age… but the skis are not “slow”. Just the skiers.

[Manney]

My understanding is that the soft camber causes excess drag with the fishscales om consolidated snow, whohx is why this ski is slow in some conditions.

A ski that is properly matched to the weight of a skier doesn’t suffer from “excess drag”. It can have a high, soft camber. Or it can have a low, stiff one. Or it can have something in between.

Full compression occurs at a given load. A good shop won’t just pull off the charts. They’ll put the skier on the ski and measure the camber when weight is one one ski and both skis. A really good shop will ask the skier to hold a kettle bell to simulate the added weight of outerwear, poles, pack etc.

It’s no different for waxed or scaled skis. The pocket should not be fully compressed until the ski is weighted for kick. If it is, it’s either not well matched to the skier or it has been deliberately selected for a novice skier who hasn’t yet developed good technique (weight transfer).

Skis go fast in some conditions, slower in others. That isn’t unique to narrower skis. Nor is it unique to scales.

[CwmRaider]

Who is saying that the skis are slow because they are narrow? Nobody. They have a soft camber which is typical for wider xc skis meant for turning, which.makes them more forgiving than xc racing sticks, but this causes more drag than typical for narrow xc skis. Its just a combo which some people don't like. It makes the most difference on consolidated snow or groomed tracks. In some powder it won't be so noticeable.
Not all xc BC skis can be matched to weight effectively. There are many full size xc BC skis which compress with 20 kg pressure. Well, good for people.weighing 40 kg or less....

[Manney]

Who is saying that the skis are slow because they are narrow?

Ummm…

Personally I have no use for a slow skinny ski.

It is my personal opinion that cross country skiing would be more popular if not for the plethora of slow, easy skiing, recreational skis. Just me, but what’s the purpose of a slow ski on a groomed XC surface?

The kiss of death for any physical sport is the degree of difficulty. That’s why things like the X games (video game competition) quickly gained popularity… it combines society’s two great passions: Ease and laziness. Throw in a bag or Doritos and you have a slam dunk case for popularity in America. Make it hard and it will be a fringe.

An XC ski on a groomed surface doesn’t move on its own. The skier has to propel it. Fast skier = fast ski.

Some XC or BC skis reward energetic skiing techniques more than others… think a stiff, high cambered ski. Others reward technique more than others… a skating ski for example. But they are 100% dependent on the exertion of the skier to move.

Anyone exerting running energy on an XC ski will be able to move at least as quickly as they can run — on the flats and uphill — on a groomed track. This is by design as skiing was invented to facilitate movement, not hinder it. What would be the human interest in a device that hinders motion? Novelty, like a fat suit? That’s about it.

When the slope points down, any reasonable XC ski will be able to easily exceed running speed… even cycling speed. Given enough of a slope, any ski will be able to exceed a skier’s comfort level. It’s baked into the design… ptex has been chosen for its low frictional qualities. The only practical limitation is deep powder, which a skinny XC ski isn’t designed for… which is one of the reasons BC skis are wider. (Yeah, ppl will say air resistance but this discussion is about the ski whose air resistance is infinitesimally low.)

But will a wider BC ski be slower on the piste? Totally depends on the energy applied by the skier. The movements (proficiency) is all the same. The bases (ptex) are all the same. The kick zones (wax or scales) are all the same. The only difference is the contact area between a very slippery base and the snow. And even that can be adjusted for by reducing the wax pocket or exerting more effort. (Remember, the term used was “groomed surface” so things like drag through snow don’t count because groomed surfaces are compressed as part of the “grooming” process.)

This isn’t unique to XC. It applies to AT and alpine too. Only most of the AT or alpine skier’s effort is applied to controlling speed by running at various angles across the fall line. The chairlift provided all the energy getting the skier to the top of the hill. So there really isn’t such a thing as a slow AT or alpine ski. Some perform better than others due to their design but none are actually “slow”.

Keep in mind that all of this has been about speed. Not support, not control, not weight.

[Lubega6]

OP here. Wow, thanks a lot for you replies and enthusiasm From what I've read so far, the deal is good (I feel better now) and the skis are alright, albeit not performance oriented (that is not what I was expecting anyways -Manney got it right).

I however understand what Fisheater meant: we usually see skinny skis with strong cambers. These two parameters work together to build speed, and this is what I initially thought the Spyders would have (as skinny skis). I really have the feeling that these are good starter skis meant for people skiing golf clubs and snowmobile trails... on rolling terrain (hence the soft camber for more downhill confidence). However, anybody wanting more performance (either speed or turning capabilities) will eventually switch to more specialized models; like S-Bounds, Country Crowns or Transnordics, depending on the objective; and Fischer will have successfully sold 2 pairs of skis to the same person, making the company accountants happy.

In my case, this is not a big deal, since I already own a pair of Ingstad for downhill and a pair of Rossignol for more backcountry speed. My girl partner being much slower than me, I don't fear being outrun by her with the Spyders. If anything, I'll try to catch a deal on Transnordics in 1-2 years to replace them.

[Manney]

We think the ski is doing the work… it isn’t. It’s the skier.

A high cambered ski will be great on a firmer surface, provided the skier can exploit them with technique. If they can’t, they’re just another set of planks.

Add a few inches of fresh snow OVER a groomed trail, and a low cambered ski will be better because the pressure will be more evenly distributed along the ski (which reduces plow).

During my many skis with friends on groomed tracks (me with BC skis, them with classic racing skis), my lessons learned are:

1. Stay on the corduroy with a BC ski. It will eliminate edge drag, won’t screw up the track, and give you a more even chance to keep up at the same level of applied energy

2. Take advantage on the climb. A skier on a skinny, highly cambered ski will have difficulty climbing… especially if they stay in the track (an experienced groomer will raise the track setting sled on the hills, but some only do this on the downhill side of the piste).

3. Pray for fresh snowfall or lax grooming. It favors the BC ski. Any more than 2-3 inches over any groomed surface shifts the energy balance towards the BC ski. If it’s 6” or more of fresh snow, you’ll crush almost anyone on a narrow classic ski.

4. Be situationally aware on the piste. Skaters are a precious group. They think the whole piste if for them except for a a foot on either side (the track). Be a gent and keep your head on a swivel to you can make way for overtaking traffic. It’s going to happen on bluebird days, when skaters go out to play.

5. The more used to BC skis you get (and it sounds like you are already), the less energy is required to drive them on groomed flats, hills to keep up with your classic partners. A good part of the challenge is keeping a tight stride… groomers can be much less stable laterally than fresh snow. This is why classic skaters usually stick to the tracks except when passing. Their lack of hard edge almost demands it.

6. Keep your steel edges sharp for a groomed XC piste. Zero base angle. Maybe a degree or two of edge angle. Nothing radical is needed. Just a nice sharp corner. Don’t detune the tips and tails to the same degree you would for the back country.

7. Enjoy the odd looks, Return them when passing the gaggle of classic skiers at the top of a groomed hill. They’ll have furrowed brows and be discussing how to handle the slope, whereas you can carry your speed over the crest and go for it.

[CwmRaider]

@Lubega6 good, you understand the caveats that some of us see. I hope you have fun
@Manney It doesn't seem like we're tuned to the same frequency today, so I'll just wish you a happy start of the week. Cheers

[Manney]

It’s all good. Snow is coming… eventually.

[CIMA]

We think the ski is doing the work… it isn’t. It’s the skier.

Indeed.
One of the intriguing aspects of XCD is how it lets you compensate for the downsides that gear enthusiasts often mention, all through your technique and physical abilities. As you gain more experience, you'll find that these drawbacks aren't really that big of a deal.

[mca80]

We think the ski is doing the work… it isn’t. It’s the skier.

Indeed.
One of the intriguing aspects of XCD is how it lets you compensate for the downsides that gear enthusiasts often mention, all through your technique and physical abilities. As you gain more experience, you'll find that these drawbacks aren't really that big of a deal.

Having the right tool for the job helps, and is important. A framing hammer will be better for framing than a finishing hammer, and the converse. Yes, one's swing is important, most important, but the tool matters.