What boots to buy??

[Manney]

Yeah, totally. Camber is a big deal for control. Scales no big deal.

[connyro]

Yeah, totally. Camber is a big deal for control. Scales no big deal.

Quit cherry-picking. He said camber AND scales in COMBINATION can be a problem for control, not JUST camber:

The scales become a problem for turning when you are on double camber skis. The camber prevents you from having consistent pressure on your bases making for a jerky ride.

Reading comprehension is hard, especially when you have an agenda.

[Manney]

LOL

Isn't a ski without any traction pattern easier to control downhill than one with? Maybe waxing for grip isn't ideal for your conditions, though.

Might affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.

Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.

Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).

@connyro can’t separate the difference between speed, grip and control. It therefore follows that when somebody talks about handing changes (scales versus scales + camber), he gets lost in the details.

[connyro]

LOL

Isn't a ski without any traction pattern easier to control downhill than one with? Maybe waxing for grip isn't ideal for your conditions, though.

Might affect speed a tiny bit. A few % maybe, depending on snow conditions.

Control? Not enough to affect edging, carving. No impact on general weighting of the ski. Maybe some minor pressure impact directly underfoot during a flat turn on very hard, compressed snow if the grip pattern doesn’t penetrate fully.

Likely to be an insignificant impact compared to the other factors (camber, stiffness, side cut, length, width, edge & base tuning).

Circling back to this nonsense? Well that proves your case!

[Manney]

[Lo-Fi]

Isn't a ski without any traction pattern easier to control downhill than one with? ...

I have found that a fishscale/traction base does affect control,all other things being equal.

The scales do cause resistance and lower your speed, but as long as that resistance is consistent they ski fine and can even help your control. The scales become a problem for turning when you are on double camber skis. The camber prevents you from having consistent pressure on your bases making for a jerky ride.

Agreed, but for me, even with single cambered skis too. I’ve had the benefit of owning a few skis through the years in both their “wax” and “no wax” versions and I felt the differences in controllability were noticeable.

The scaled skis are less predictable and squirrely on firmer and icier conditions(groomers or b/c) - maybe because the positive pattern section of the base is like a subtle “high” point that acts more like a pivot fulcrum (or the opposite in the case of a negative pattern), reducing their straight line tracking propensity.

...With scales facing in a fixed direction, even on edge during a turn won't part of the scales be hitting snow and causing resistance in a manner that is highly variable throughout the turn as the direction of the scales relative to fall line changes? ...

I think you are correct. I've found scaled skis are more variably grabby on higher friction snow - perhaps, to the extent the skis are planing or skidding through a turn, the scales create more lateral resistance as the skis are turned perpendicular to the fall line, compared to a smooth base.

Usually, when trying to make comparisons, of course it is helpful to try to hold all other variables equal, otherwise things like skier ability, differences in camber, flex, side cut etc make it very difficult to discern the affect of any one factor. That said, in practice in “real world” circumstances, some elements are "relational", for example:

Last season I was helping someone learn the tele-turn. We were working in soft snow conditions and because we were on a low angle slope to avoid the need to deal with edging/angulation type issues, the scaled skis were at times too slow to get sufficient momentum to facilitate the planing/gliding skis that make for an easier beginner turn. Thus, it was kind of necessarily a conditions + slope + scaled base = speed -> control issue.

[Manney]

“All things being equal”… love this phrase. A sure sign of impending brilliance in any human endevor. Especially those involving high speed tools or rocketry. In skiing, it’s merely amusing.

Using scales on ice? Using any ski on ice? Sure to be a great sesh. Love ice. Could never figure out why they don’t flood trails and pistes each night so they can freeze up nice and smooth like a hockey rink, can you?

Scales on high grip snow? Yep, cause that’s why scales were invented. When you have lots of grip, add more. Until. All. Forward. Motion. Stops. And. Then. Blame. Control.

Learner with control issues. Really, that’s a “thing”? Don’t believe it. LOL.

[greatgt]

Boots to buy? ANY leather boot you can find that is your size. TM

[mca80]

Boots to buy? ANY leather boot you can find that is your size. TM

I've tried on 5 or 6 different boots, in nnbc and 75mm. The Crispi Bre fit me so well, at least in the house, that I could see wearing them just for hiking around (I won't do that). Has me thinking about converting more of my skis to rotte st just because of how good those boots feel. Had already planned on doing so with Nansen for use strictly as downhill at the resort (or skinning up at same, on days the lifts don't run). Might be worth it also for a ski I would use primarily in the bc for lots of miles touring with some intermittent downhill like Combat Nato.

Boot fit and support is probably more important than type of binding eh?

[Manney]

Yeah, for sure.