Military Ski Master List (w/ Photos)

[Manney]

Started populating the master list with photos. Then reached a file limit, so split the list into two parts.

List now starts here…

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... 999#p61333

List will be updated if new data on the listed skis is received. Otherwise, it will remain unchanged.

There are lots of photos of other militaries using skis. Some, like India and Pakistan, are taken at ski training centers. The skis used in such locations are not operational skis, lacking load carrying capacity or low visibility features.

Other skis, like those of China or Russia are pretty generic and unmarked… probably because they’re knocked out in great quantities by domestic producers who do nothing but government work (LOL). In some cases (Russia) obscurity is intentional. It avoids sanction busting activity… skis supplied for military use might be verboten under sanctions imposed following Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Crimea and their subsequent invasion of Ukraine. (Readers will note that this wasn’t part of the calculus in the photos of Spetznaz troops (their use of Trab skis was pretty evident and should prompt that company to go back through its invoices to identify intermediaries who might be helping Russia circumvent sanctions.)

There are a few countries obviously missing from the list… Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic and Slovakia. These nations have long traditions of “ski troops”. Alas, few photos. Even fewer narratives to cross reference.

Shout outs to @Jurassien, @Theme and @fgd135 for providing data, context and updates. Their additions helped with lines of inquiry that helped a great deal.

[Jurassien]

Here is a better picture of the ski equipment, current and former, of the Chasseurs Alpins (France).
Location: Annecy (Open Door exhibition)
Date: 10. June 2018

On the left is the older ski with Fritschi Diamir, on the right the current (since 2016) model with tech binding. In both cases the skis are by Dynastar, the current one being available in two sizes only, namely 172 and 178cm. Visible on the shelf behind the skis, apart from the white snow-shoes, is a pair of dark grey plastic ski-boots. This is the currently issued boot and is a variant of the model F1 by Scarpa.

To the best of my knowledge, the French military are an exception in their use of the Dynafit-type (tech) binding. The model in current use is by the French manufacturer Plum.

[Manney]

Thanks again, @Jurassien. List amended with the lengths available to the military versions. Great photo… noticed the crampons. Haven’t seen those in use much with military skis. They might be in a lot of knapsacks though.

[Manney]

Staying away from bindings because the quality of photos is rarely sufficient to distinguish between models. Boots are less of a problem but there are some military-only boots.

The thing that surprises me the most is the brand diversity of skis. Figured that there’d be 6, maybe 8, “go to” ski models used by Western forces. There are probably four times that number in NATO alone, equally split between XCd and alpine skis.

Regardless, some trends apparent. For general XC mobility, things shifted from long, straight and skinny in the 70s and 80s to wider skis with some side cut today… backcountry skis. People are larger, heavier. Soldier loads are higher. So this change makes sense… but it isn’t something we necessarily see on the civilian side (skating, racing skis predominate in the civilian world by a factor of at least 50:1),

One notable exception is the KSF Scout… but that ski is unlikely to attract many civilian sales outside of Finland or, perhaps, Sweden. Not that it’s a bad ski. It’s just one better suited to very long distance, open country skiing.

Military alpine skis follow civilian patterns. All the same trends we see on the slopes are reflected in the field. Every one.

Some good reasons behind these trends. Backcountry skis are ideal for general mobility across unprepared ground while carrying a load. Doing this successfully in an unprepared alpine setting requires a very high level of skill, so is restricted to small specialist units on alpine skis*. This affects commercial opportunities for manufacturers, who can sell militaries one hundred BC skis for every alpine ski.

Most of the planet is reasonably flat… fields, undulating terrain, hills… and forested. The high ground offers advantages, mostly below the tree line. At *altitudes* above the tree line, opportunities for movement, resupply, and concealment shrink. Military tasks in high alpine areas are more about observation and denial, less about control and dominance. That can be done with fewer troops, which means fewer skis. Not a great business case for a ski manufacturer to develop a unique “military alpine ski”. So change the top sheet to white or camo and reply to a defense purchase request.

*Japan is an exception, using the Jieitai in both backcountry and (modest) alpine conditions. Japanese ski training is apparently intensive though. Military skiers must pass the third level of the Japanese ski association’s qualification levels. We’re not talking super high competence, but the training is structured and progressive… and all done on Jieitai. No starting off on training skis.

[mca80]

Couple thoughts...

A good question, for which answers may be difficult to come by, is why each military chose the particulars of their skis--construction, dimensions, etc. The first one to come to mind is the unusual characteristics of the Japanese ski.

Secondly, you say Finnish and Japanese have strong preference for "captive toe bindings." Does this merely refer to a binding where the toe is locked in without releasability, like most all civilian bindings excepting the "universal" bindings like Finngrip Era, etc.?

Also, thanks again to all contributors, great list and resource, and fun to boot.

[Manney]

Couple thoughts...

A good question, for which answers may be difficult to come by, is why each military chose the particulars of their skis--construction, dimensions, etc. The first one to come to mind is the unusual characteristics of the Japanese ski.

Secondly, you say Finnish and Japanese have strong preference for "captive toe bindings." Does this merely refer to a binding where the toe is locked in without releasability, like most all civilian bindings excepting the "universal" bindings like Finngrip Era, etc.?

Also, thanks again to all contributors, great list and resource, and fun to boot.

Dimensions have a lot to do with conditions of use. Snow, weight bearing etc., probably dictated by climate and soldier loading (which is pretty well known, influencing everything from load carrying vests and packs to the number of calories in MREs). Past experience is a likely influence too, as some consistency between last gen and this gen skis.

The Japanese have one length of ski, perhaps because Japan is a mono culture… 97-98% of Japanese citizens are ethnic Japanese. The height and weight of Japanese people vary, but there may be a larger number of people “in the middle” than other cultures (similar to Danes, who studies have shown to be the world’s tallest people on average).

The other unique thing about Japan is that it operates a “Self Defence Force”. So combat operations are restricted, by law, to the Japanese home islands. This means that the geographic context of winter operations is pretty much restricted to northern Honshu and Hokkaido… which combined are roughly equivalent to NY state in area. Suspect lots of wet snow because of coastal climate.

US Forces operate globally. All NATO countries can be called upon to operate throughout NATO territory, which goes beyond Europe into North America if needed. The diversity of skiable terrain, temperatures, and snow conditions is considerable. Helps explain why “we” (US and NATO) have so many different skis, whereas the Japanese have just one (always have)… with a unique friction pattern.

Captive toe might be the wrong term… so let me explain what is meant by that…

At one end, we have strap bindings. Like the NATO type system, which secures to any boot. At the other extreme is an alpine system, which controls range of movement in conjunction with a binding-specific boot.

A captive toe kind of falls in the middle. On one hand, it works with a task-generic boot… Finnish combat boot, Japanese combat boot. These are designed to capture and hold the toe of the boot with a matched stamping. On the other hand, the toe is not locked down (like a 3 pin boot). The toe is held in place by the force of the heel spring against the back of the boot. But there is no pivot action beyond the bending of the sole, rather like the NN system.

There are similar bindings in the civilian world that work with a welted boot (combat boots are usually welted). Used the term “captive” to differentiate between military boot specific (doubt whether a Finnish boot would work with a Japanese binding and vice versa) and the civilian ones of roughly similar function.

It’s worth noting that the Canadians use a different method when in the Arctic. They use big Mukluk boots to prevent their feet from falling off, which the NATO system caters to. But, the Canadians have a plastic form that goes around the Mukluk. This form has what appears to be a NNN BC bar. That connects to a standard NNN BC binding, which has to have a better “feel” than those awful looking NATO bindings.

The civilian equivalent is an ALFA Mukluk, which is NNN BC capable. Retails for… well over $500. Too expensive for general military issue. Called the Polar Expedition boot.

Glad you’re enjoying the content, @mca80. It was fun putting things together…. Might need glasses from squinting a thumbnail and fuzzy photos tho.

[Manney]

Found a few photos of the elusive Karhu Backcountry skis used by the Canadians. Figured they were phased out… but the latest photos were from 2022. Needed to compare several photos from 2019 but they checked out. Posted an action shot instead of a grainy zoom in shot. Not a sexy ski… as visually interesting as Asnes USGIs or Combat NATOs. LOL

This last photo closes out the master list. If dimensional data comes in, fine. Not actively looking any more tho. Will respond to Qs, conversation but the forensic work has run its course.

[Jurassien]

For the sake of correctness, I would like to point out some inaccuracies in the photos and/or text descriptions.

Austria:
The Austrian military (Bundesheer) do not, to the best of my knowledge, use the Kästle TX93 ski. The soldier in the foreground of this picture is indeed holding one, but with a tech binding (perhaps his personal property, or because he is an army ski-instructor). Furthermore, that “bulb” on the shovel is luminous – hardly a desirable property on a military ski! The other soldiers in the parade are holding the issued Hagan skis with the Tyrolia/Head binding.

These current ski-sets can also be seen here (pictures from Kitzbühel, 17. Jan.2022):

Not forgetting the ladies (same date):

Germany:
The soldier in this picture is carrying skis with an early version of the Silvretta binding mounted. The Silvretta has been obsolete for many years as, from a safety point of view, it has long since been surpassed by more modern designs. The picture must be assumed to be from an event long passed.

This second photo is correct. The German military (Bundeswehr) currently use Hagan skis with the Diamir (Fritschi) binding and have been doing so since at least 7 years:

……………. as can also be seen here. The word “Bund” (Federation) on the binding frame identifies the ski as government property:

Switzerland:
The skis in this picture (with tech bindings) are not used by the Swiss military. Also, I haven’t seen that camouflage pattern in Switzerland – so it’s questionable if these two soldiers are even Swiss.

This picture from Feb/March 2023 shows some (genuine) Switzer militiamen who appear to be quite happy carrying their kit. Skis are Stöckli, bindings Diamir:

[Manney]

It’s difficult to say what’s correct or not. If you look closely, the second Bundesheer member from the left also has the same Kastle. The closest ski also appears to have a disruptive pattern on the top sheet… Kastle didn’t make a ski with this pattern for civilian use. Also, the color of the oval is different than the ones shown on the ski held by the Bundesheer member. All the luminous ones sold commercially were light/bright colored. Might be the manufacturer retaining as much of the basic visual characteristics of the ski as possible for brand recognition or marketing. We see this happening on other skis with stripes, logos etc.

The older ski carried by the German skier (with the Silvretta binding) was taken quite recently by a US Forces photographer. It was from the last Eidelweiss Raid competition. Given the length of time militaries hold onto their gear, this may not be so unusual. Will double check tho and see if there are other corroborating photos. Haven’t positively identified that ski… so will give me joy to delete it from the list. Hate incomplete data.

The pattern on the “Swiss” skiers ski isn’t cam pattern. Figured it was “shine through” from the etched metal laminate construction of that ski. Fact checked the cam pattern tho… You are correct, sir. Not Swiss of any kind. Not German, Austrian, or French. Close to one type of British pattern but not an exact match. Positively identified as US forces, as per photo below. Haven’t seen that pack system or ski on US Forces in other photos. Will delete photo from the list, as it may be a one-off trial ski or pack system under development. Ski not corresponding to the clearly marked Stockli in your photo either. Good catch!

Great picture of the Stocklis. Young troops enjoying life! Way better photo than anything found to date. Will add that photo to the master list. Thank you.

[Manney]