Madshus Panorama 78

[rongon]

I live in the Mid-Hudson Valley region. It's about a 3.5 hour drive to the ADK High Peaks for me. 1.5 hours to the interior Catskills.

[lilcliffy]

Bre probably won't power/control M78 in hard/crusty snow, right?

No- not in my experience.
If you want to use a boot as soft as the Bre on icy and/or hard snow- you want a narrower stiffer ski.

That being said- I have never liked the Karhu/Madshus 78 on hard and/or icy snow- too soft, round and flexible- my experience is that it bends and twists all over the place- unstable at speed.

Soft snow→ dreamy ski.

[metamorphosis108]

Bre probably won't power/control M78 in hard/crusty snow, right?

No- not in my experience.
If you want to use a boot as soft as the Bre on icy and/or hard snow- you want a narrower stiffer ski.

That being said- I have never liked the Karhu/Madshus 78 on hard and/or icy snow- too soft, round and flexible- my experience is that it bends and twists all over the place- unstable at speed.

Soft snow→ dreamy ski.

What would you recommend as a similar width or even wider xcD ski for hard and icy snow that would pair well with a light plastic boot (T4)?

[lilcliffy]

What would you recommend as a similar width or even wider xcD ski for hard and icy snow that would pair well with a light plastic boot (T4)?

Before we dive deep into this-
perhaps consider a new thread to get some more contribution-
(I rarely downhill ski at my local lift-served icy hill. When I do I use my Storetind, but am also testing both the Nansen and the Ingstad as well. I don't do any local BC downhill skiing when the snow is hard/icy- too dangerous.)
As a starting question-
why would you want a ski as wide as the 78 (or even wider) for downhill skiing on hard/icy snow?

[rongon]

I agree 100% with lilcliffy re: Annum/M78 on hardpack snow. It's really a soft snow ski.

I feel more secure on my old Vector BC skis on hardpack. It's also better in steeper, bumpy trails (think Mt Marcy Ski Trail in low snow conditions) than the Annum/M78, I think because the Vector BC is a) stiffer and b) has some early rise to its tip and tail and c) is wider (a lot wider). Bear in mind that I ski the Annum/M78 with a 3-buckle plastic boot (Crispi CXA or CXP).

Maybe the Voile Objective BC would be a good choice for harder snow than the Annum/M78? But then, does Voile void the warranty if you mount it with telemark bindings?

There are several Asnes models that would give good grip in harder conditions. There's lots of info on this forum about their models. I've never owned a pair, so I don't know.

There is no perfect ski that handles all conditions and terrain types equally well.

*Everything* is a compromise.
Everything *is* a compromise.
Everything is a *compromise*.

The trick is to pick the best compromise for your intended usage.

1) Lightweight for uphill,
2) nice and turny for downhill,
3) equally good for soft snow and hardpack...

Pick TWO.

[metamorphosis108]

What would you recommend as a similar width or even wider xcD ski for hard and icy snow that would pair well with a light plastic boot (T4)?

Before we dive deep into this-
perhaps consider a new thread to get some more contribution-
(I rarely downhill ski at my local lift-served icy hill. When I do I use my Storetind, but am also testing both the Nansen and the Ingstad as well. I don't do any local BC downhill skiing when the snow is hard/icy- too dangerous.)
As a starting question-
why would you want a ski as wide as the 78 (or even wider) for downhill skiing on hard/icy snow?

For much of the year, conditions around here (mostly MA & NH) are hard pack and icy. But it seems like wider is not necessarily the way to go.

[metamorphosis108]

I agree 100% with lilcliffy re: Annum/M78 on hardpack snow. It's really a soft snow ski.

I feel more secure on my old Vector BC skis on hardpack. It's also better in steeper, bumpy trails (think Mt Marcy Ski Trail in low snow conditions) than the Annum/M78, I think because the Vector BC is a) stiffer and b) has some early rise to its tip and tail and c) is wider (a lot wider). Bear in mind that I ski the Annum/M78 with a 3-buckle plastic boot (Crispi CXA or CXP).

Maybe the Voile Objective BC would be a good choice for harder snow than the Annum/M78? But then, does Voile void the warranty if you mount it with telemark bindings?

There are several Asnes models that would give good grip in harder conditions. There's lots of info on this forum about their models. I've never owned a pair, so I don't know.

There is no perfect ski that handles all conditions and terrain types equally well.

*Everything* is a compromise.
Everything *is* a compromise.
Everything is a *compromise*.

The trick is to pick the best compromise for your intended usage.

1) Lightweight for uphill,
2) nice and turny for downhill,
3) equally good for soft snow and hardpack...

Pick TWO.

I have been eyeing Voile skis. However, the lack of warranty for tie 3pin bindings and the ski price have kept me on the fence. It sounds like I would need more than T4 to handle Voile skis?

[rongon]

The Objective BC is only 80mm width in the waist, which is pretty much the same as the Madshus M78. The Objective BC is a very different ski, though. Rockered tip and tail, more sidecut, wider tip, more of a downhill-oriented ski. That said, I've seen people in the Adirondacks on those skis with 3-pin bindings and T4 boots.

[metamorphosis108]

Bre probably won't power/control M78 in hard/crusty snow, right?

No- not in my experience.
If you want to use a boot as soft as the Bre on icy and/or hard snow- you want a narrower stiffer ski.

That being said- I have never liked the Karhu/Madshus 78 on hard and/or icy snow- too soft, round and flexible- my experience is that it bends and twists all over the place- unstable at speed.

Soft snow→ dreamy ski.

What would you recommend as a similar width or even wider xcD ski for hard and icy snow that would pair well with a light plastic boot (T4)?

Would Fischer Traverse 78 be a better choice with Bre 75 mm on icy/hard snow? I currently have Traverse 78 with NNN-BC and can switch to ST bindings (have an extra pair lying around which I got on super deep discount) if that would offer more control.

[fisheater]

My Alaska BC in a BC binding offers more control than my Alaska 75 in a 75 mm binding without employing a cable.

I don’t know what your skiing background is, could a few lessons help? Not trying to be smart, just asking.