Help Me Choose: Burly Leather Boots vs. Soft Plastic Boots

[Harris]

Problem is there are two kinds of boot stiffness one good, one bad. Stiffness that prevents sole torsion bending is good--at a certain ski width it gets hard to put a ski on edge with a boot whose sole torques when you lift the heel. At some point it doesn't matter how hard you big-toe-little-toe it.

I'm guessing people who favor stiffness in leather boots are trying to avoid a sole that can torque rather than preferring a boot that resists getting the ball of your foot down.

I know a lot of people liked plastic boots when they came out for the supportive height of the boot, but I liked the torsion free sole. I chose a green T2 over a T1 when I had the chance ('97) because I mainly liked that plastic boots could bend at the toe without torqueing even one degree. That T2 didn't bend as much at the toe as I would have liked, and certainly didn't bend like a good leather boot, but I guess I was hating boot-sole torque more than I was loving toe flex.

It's probably a trade-off we're all making one way or another.

Good points. The one thing about leathers that you, I and pretty much most using them day-in-day-out had a problem with was that boots had very distinct phases: 1st it wasn't broken in and felt odd. 2nd, after much work it broke in it did so just the way you wanted it, and you full on owned, but then 3rd, it went quick and broke down soon after. You had a pretty small window of having things exactly right. And so you resoled it, added voile plates, whatever and then when your thighs and knees could take no more butterboot, and it became obvious you were suffering you bought new boots. Rewind. In fact, I personally never treated my leathers. I didn't want them to soften, because like you said, you want them flexible where you want them flexible. But I skied 120+ days a season, and after a season my boots were shot, and that is with new re-soles and welts mid-season. A funny thing is though, and this might just be a hold-over feel from having started on leathers, one of the problems I had with plastic boots at first, and then definitely when I went to NTN, and the reason I migrated back to my old duckbill Garas, which are a pretty soft boot that flexes a little torsionally to the outside, was that I wanted just a little outward side torque/flex on the inside boot at the bellows, especially when initiating because it feels like that with little angle achieved yet I can bring that tip under and turning away from the other ski instantly before I have the opportunity to get the weight bearing down on it and the things parallel out via harder edging and forces. There is a little, brief moment on stiff setups that feels vague. I also have a pretty pronounced angular toes to foot joint and so that might feel more natural to me just due to that. But, yeah, you give up the power thereafter and have to muscle it more, but for me it is a worth it trade off. I tend to especially fight NTN, and they will clack for a split second before my turn is established, and I hate that. In fact I'm not sure I'd really ever like my inside ski edging exactly as well as my outer, which tends to pull the knees apart width wise, which with my old knees is the most painful aspect of the turn. These days I'd rather load it as I see fit with weighting, using it as a side-slide break, suffering the hit to the thigh endurance working it as such. In the old days on leathers I could actually chatter my turn on ice at will. Of course back then I wasn't 50. But like you said it is a tradeoff and always preference, as well as individual physiological limitations. And certainly others like yourself have probably got it down pat. I never could as well as I'd like. With my Gara duckbills, pretty much. But I'm not sure I'll ever like a boot like I did my old leather/plastic Supercomps when they were just right. Like the others you mentioned I wanted more cuff height and longer lasting perfectly broke-in flex. But then again memories aren't always the truth, and if I had my old Supercomps just right and right now I might hate them compared to plastics that I now use.

[lowangle al]

Harris mentions that his boots only lasted a season at the resort. With over 120 days of skiing, assuming 10,000 ft of vert per day that's 1,200,000 feet of vert per season. If your leather boots are to be used primarily in the bc you may not get that much vert in a lifetime, and your boots may last that long as well. I also think that a thousand feet of vert at the resort is harder on boots than a thousand in the bc.

[greatgt]

^^^^^ agree with that! Had some Andrews North Rims and they were the bomb but those too were destroyed as are most things I ski...However @ 600 days on them they SHOULD have been destroyed....Telekid still is using his for downhill...and they are in good shape....Mine have been resoled poorly and are full of Shoe gue...If I go to a ski area they will have to do the deed....TM

[RodMcLean]

Hi,

I just realized I have a pair of the Alico Ski March boots, "size 15 US" , I bought them years back, as I thought I'd never get a "real tele boot" in my size!

It seems that I could drive fairly big-ish skis with these? . Currently just using SNS-BC with pellestovas!

6'6" and 230 - Annums or smaller - pins and cable?

Thanks
Roddy

[EvanTrem]

Out with the old, in with the new!

Just drilled and mounted my new Annums with inserts to go along with my new Alico Ski March boots.
They are a far cry from my old 207cm Karhu XCD Supremes.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the boot/ski selection! I can't wait to take them for a spin.

[metamorphosis108]

Out with the old, in with the new!

Just drilled and mounted my new Annums with inserts to go along with my new Alico Ski March boots.
They are a far cry from my old 207cm Karhu XCD Supremes.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the boot/ski selection! I can't wait to take them for a spin.

Wanted to ask how did the Alico Ski March work with the Annums?

[DG99]

I got some T4s recently. For backcountry trail skiing in tough conditions and XCD.

The current common crop of “leather” 75 mm 3 pin boots just don’t seem to cut it. They look good but don’t have the rigidity they look like they might. Old school heavy leather like I used to have are hard to find and hard to fit, sight unseen i.e. mail order. I already had 27.5 T2s that fit well, so 27.5 T4s were an easy choice.

…my 2 cents!

[metamorphosis108]

I got some T4s recently. For backcountry trail skiing in tough conditions and XCD.

The current common crop of “leather” 75 mm 3 pin boots just don’t seem to cut it. They look good but don’t have the rigidity they look like they might. Old school heavy leather like I used to have are hard to find and hard to fit, sight unseen i.e. mail order. I already had 27.5 T2s that fit well, so 27.5 T4s were an easy choice.

…my 2 cents!

Now, I am also gravitating towards T-4! On a related note, what is the safest way to control speed on forest service roads that have very narrow snowshoe tracks in the middle and either breakable crust or postholes on the sides? I had hard time edging Annums (and staying balanced) this afternoon on a variable snow conditions ranging from hard icy to crud.

[lowangle al]

I got some T4s recently. For backcountry trail skiing in tough conditions and XCD.

The current common crop of “leather” 75 mm 3 pin boots just don’t seem to cut it. They look good but don’t have the rigidity they look like they might. Old school heavy leather like I used to have are hard to find and hard to fit, sight unseen i.e. mail order. I already had 27.5 T2s that fit well, so 27.5 T4s were an easy choice.

…my 2 cents!

Now, I am also gravitating towards T-4! On a related note, what is the safest way to control speed on forest service roads that have very narrow snowshoe tracks in the middle and either breakable crust or postholes on the sides? I had hard time edging Annums (and staying balanced) this afternoon on a variable snow conditions ranging from hard icy to crud.

You're on the right track. The best thing you can do to survive (if not conquer) bad conditions is upgrade to the T4.

[metamorphosis108]

I got some T4s recently. For backcountry trail skiing in tough conditions and XCD.

The current common crop of “leather” 75 mm 3 pin boots just don’t seem to cut it. They look good but don’t have the rigidity they look like they might. Old school heavy leather like I used to have are hard to find and hard to fit, sight unseen i.e. mail order. I already had 27.5 T2s that fit well, so 27.5 T4s were an easy choice.

…my 2 cents!

Now, I am also gravitating towards T-4! On a related note, what is the safest way to control speed on forest service roads that have very narrow snowshoe tracks in the middle and either breakable crust or postholes on the sides? I had hard time edging Annums (and staying balanced) this afternoon on a variable snow conditions ranging from hard icy to crud.

You're on the right track. The best thing you can do to survive (if not conquer) bad conditions is upgrade to the T4.

Can the Intuition liner be heat molded at home or need to be done at a boot fitting shop?