Outcast vs Meidjo, my thoughts with far too little experience

[Woodserson]

I have spent this miserable winter slowly transitioning to NTN. The draw is three-fold: I am interested in releasability (Meidjo's), the extra locked-in lateral control and subsequent power, and the lightness. Hovering around these three interests are also the possible extinction of the 75mm world (yet to be proven) and the fact that I am somewhat limited in boots since Scarpa decided to arbitrarily exterminate my 30.5/31.0 boot size and I wanted to find solutions sooner than later (do I build a stockpile for the rest of my life or move on to NTN?).
I am specifically attracted to the Meidjo for its releasability aspect, purported natural feel, and lightness. Intellectually I am biased to preferring this binding.

Boot wise: Fortunately for me I was able to fit into the 29.5/30.0 TXP. I lost some toebox room but it's acceptable and I have no pain in the boot. So that's a gigantic relief. There is a little more room I think in the 29.5/30.0 TXP than the 29.5/30.0 T2 Eco, so there is some allowance for big feet people to get into a shell. For reference, I had oodles of room in the Crispi EVO, but that boot just fit funny.

Once I secured the boot, I picked up a 22D Outlaw X and dropped it into my skis with 22D inserts. The Outlaw X skis fantastic. Really incredible inside-ski control, I roll it over and the ski sets into the turn and I can forget it, very little management is required. That was very cool. Other than that, it felt very much like the Vice/Axl on #3, which is how I ski that binding inbounds (#2 when touring/soft snow). It did have a hard stop at the bottom however that I wasn't too keen on. I did some reading, and decided to remove the inner spring (very easy) and went with one solo normal spring. Much better! The binding really had some flow to it then, and the stop at the end was a little softer.

Then I borrowed a pair of skis with some Meidjos. Same ski as I had with the Outlaws (Fey Bros Outcast 97), mounting point within 1cm, and did a direct side-by-side comparison of the two bindings on the same day at the same hill on the same trails. I would take a few runs on the Outcast, then a few runs on the Meidjo, rinse and repeat. Outlaw was set with 1 spring #3, Meidjo set with 2 normal springs and #2.

Skating over to the lift the Meidjo had a real immediately snap to it, instant activation, no slop. I felt this was going to be a real nice binding. I got to the top, pointed them down a very mellow trail that I had just skied on the Outlaws, dropped my knee and almost fell flat on my face. I felt like I was in Switchbacks, and not the X2. I recalibrated for an instant, made sure to drop straight down onto my heel, same feeling. Floppiness. I pulled over to the side and jacked the screws to #3. Hardly and difference. In the turns the inside skis wandered left and and right and took seriously management to keep them under control. They were getting tossed. I paralleled to the bottom (very nice) and then jacked the Meidjo up to #4.5, almost to the limit of 5. Stiffer, more active, and better feeling when dropping the knee but the inside ski continued to porpoise left and right wandering around like a drunken eel. Very humbling moment, I felt like I have serious technique issues that the Outlaw provides cover for that the Meidjo does not... but I don't know.

I swapped back into the Outlaw-- 1 spring, #3, and went back out, skied the same trail, no problem. Inside ski set itself when the knee dropped and I just forgot about it. Absolutely wonderful control.

So that's where I am. I was moving quickly, making shotgun purchases and trying to make big decisions before a ski trip coming up at the end of March but I am going to have to hit the brakes big time and revisit this. I have a friend who is going to lend me his Ripstick 96 w/ Meidjo since he's out on injury for the season, and I am going to spend more time playing with them. I'm not writing them off completely, but it would be foolish to launch in the backcountry on a new binding that I wasn't familiar with. I am a bit bewildered as I had my heart set on the Meidjo and its releasability function, but the Outlaw X, in my very limited testing, absolutely crushed it into the ground with an iron fist.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Nick BC]

How many springs were in the Meidjo? If it was just one try it with the additional inner spring.

[Woodserson]

Outlaw was set with 1 spring #3, Meidjo set with 2 normal springs and #2.

I'm thinking of maybe trying the Redline spring with the inner spring next? But doesn't it seem strange that I'm a single normal spring on the Outcast at a moderate setting and I shouldn't be jacking up the Meidjo to a Redline? It seems the equivalency is way off to me.

[Montana St Alum]

Did you find that the activity level was significantly different between the two?

I'm using 2 normal springs per side on the Meidjo, or one stiffy on one pair of skis and don't see much difference. I removed the kickstand, but I have the nut dialed down to the screw being flush. I'm guessing that's down to 1 or so?

Edit: Just checked - looks like I'm at 2 on both single stiffy, and on double normal springs. I had recently increased them a bit as I think the springs do get crushed down. I've had to replace them before as they get deformed shorter, so maybe another factor in favor of Outlaw.


I think you just like the Outlaws better. Glad the boots worked out!

[Woodserson]

Did you find that the activity level was significantly different between the two?

I'm using 2 normal springs per side on the Meidjo, or one stiffy on one pair of skis and don't see much difference. I removed the kickstand, but I have the nut dialed down to the screw being flush. I'm guessing that's down to 1 or so?

Edit: Just checked - looks like I'm at 2 on both single stiffy, and on double normal springs. I had recently increased them a bit as I think the springs do get crushed down. I've had to replace them before as they get deformed shorter, so maybe another factor in favor of Outlaw.


I think you just like the Outlaws better. Glad the boots worked out!

Surprisingly I did not find a big activity difference, especially after I dialed up the Meidjos to 4.5. It's interesting, I find that the Outlaw has the same activity, but different resistance, depending on spring tension, while the Meidjo definitely feels more neutral with less resistance, and more active as they are dialed up. I'm chalking this up to the fact that Outlaw has a single, metal, hinge point and Meidjo is plastic without a strictly defined hinge point, it has more of a hinge plate, which is probably more affected by spring tension.

You know, that's what TelemarkDown said as well-- "maybe you're just a 22D guy." I would like releasability though... I don't know why 22D doesn't add the releasable cam tech from the Meidjo to their claw, seems doable.

[DG99]

Oh that’s a bummer. Meidjo seems the only really desirable reason to go NTN. Light, free pivot mode, releasable. Otherwise I’m fine on Switchbacks (that said, I ski tele just for the lower angle mixed BC terrain).

It’s too neutral? Reminds me of comments about 7tm with its underfoot plastic strap thing.

[Woodserson]

Oh that’s a bummer. Meidjo seems the only really desirable reason to go NTN. Light, free pivot mode, releasable. Otherwise I’m fine on Switchbacks (that said, I ski tele just for the lower angle mixed BC terrain).

It’s too neutral? Reminds me of comments about 7tm with its underfoot plastic strap thing.

No, it's only neutral feeling with the setting set low, it becomes very active as it is dailed up.
Agreed, the releasability is what I find so attractive, other than that why make the switch except for maybe some more power and lateral stability (which I didn't really get from Meidjo). I suspect my problems are personal technique problems-- 22D has maybe allowed me to get a little lazy.

[JohnSKepler]

Oh that’s a bummer. Meidjo seems the only really desirable reason to go NTN. Light, free pivot mode, releasable. Otherwise I’m fine on Switchbacks (that said, I ski tele just for the lower angle mixed BC terrain).

It’s too neutral? Reminds me of comments about 7tm with its underfoot plastic strap thing.

No, it's only neutral feeling with the setting set low, it becomes very active as it is dailed up.
Agreed, the releasability is what I find so attractive, other than that why make the switch except for maybe some more power and lateral stability (which I didn't really get from Meidjo). I suspect my problems are personal technique problems-- 22D has maybe allowed me to get a little lazy.

Don't let me hijack the thread but I have a question that I should have asked a while ago. I'm rather new to tele skiing and to Meidjo bindings, which I have mounted on some Voile V6. (I got them for the releasability.) I hear this term "active" quite a bit, as well as "power" or "powerful" related to both boots and bindings.

What do these terms really mean from the standpoint of the binding, the boot, and actually skiing in them? I have some ideas from reading and experience from using but I think I'm probably missing something.

[Montana St Alum]

Oh that’s a bummer. Meidjo seems the only really desirable reason to go NTN. Light, free pivot mode, releasable. Otherwise I’m fine on Switchbacks (that said, I ski tele just for the lower angle mixed BC terrain).

It’s too neutral? Reminds me of comments about 7tm with its underfoot plastic strap thing.

No, it's only neutral feeling with the setting set low, it becomes very active as it is dailed up.
Agreed, the releasability is what I find so attractive, other than that why make the switch except for maybe some more power and lateral stability (which I didn't really get from Meidjo). I suspect my problems are personal technique problems-- 22D has maybe allowed me to get a little lazy.

Don't let me hijack the thread but I have a question that I should have asked a while ago. I'm rather new to tele skiing and to Meidjo bindings, which I have mounted on some Voile V6. (I got them for the releasability.) I hear this term "active" quite a bit, as well as "power" or "powerful" related to both boots and bindings.

What do these terms really mean from the standpoint of the binding, the boot, and actually skiing in them? I have some ideas from reading and experience from using but I think I'm probably missing something.

This might help:


As far as "power", I think of it as the ability to use the stiffness of the boot - especially torsionally - and tightness of the connection between the boot and the binding, to force the ski precisely onto its edge. I'm sure there are other aspects as well, but this is primary, for me.

[Woodserson]

What do these terms really mean from the standpoint of the binding, the boot, and actually skiing in them? I have some ideas from reading and experience from using but I think I'm probably missing something.

The above video is very excellent
For personal experience though, nothing beats trying out different bindings and seeing for yourself! But if you are already on NTN you aren't going to have such a wide spread of options-- that being said take your Meidjos and dial them down to 1, and then dial them up to 5. Do this ON SNOW, carpet testing won't really demonstrate the difference here, sliding on snow is where these things really become apparent. (ask me how i know )

On 1 they will feel more neutral on the dropped knee
On 5 they will feel more active

Take out the inner spring, or add the redline spring to really start reaching for the ends of performance.

It's an amazing binding, so many people love it, my experience of 1 day of skiing is not an indictment on the binding!