Telemark 101, The Stance

[lowangle al]

Yeah, the bottom line is getting weight on the rear ski. Getting your ball of foot down helps do that and keeping a low heel helps get your BOF down.

[Stephen]

I will address tippy toe back foot skiing…

Yeah, the bottom line is getting weight on the rear ski. Getting your ball of foot down helps do that and keeping a low heel helps get your BOF down.

It seems like the tippy toe / ball of foot on ski thing comes down to this:
- How much weight is in the rear foot;
- The flex characteristics of the boot (TX Pro, Alfa Free, Asolo Telebreeze, T4, Alpina whatever, …);
- How active the binding is.

Some combinations make it easy to have a solid BOF on ski (at least 50% weight, flexible boot, active binding), and some combinations make that hard or almost impossible (like @fisheater ran into with his early boots).

Sounds like @lowangle al has it dialed in!

[mca80]

My first time on a big hill I found trouble turning right. This evening I was practicing stance without skis inside the cabin. Left foot leading, I do not weight my rear right foot as much. Opposite just seems to come naturally. How do I correct this? I am standing in the cabin trying to put more weight on right/trailing foot and it's tough.

Edit: the lower I keep right/trailing heel to the ground the more weight is transferred there. Maybe just doing this exercise over and over, without skis and with them, will help?

[greatgt]

Everybody will have a slightly different stance. All will have a different style. Free the heel, free the mind is where it is at. In freedom people have different "ways" and often they are not that much different from everybody else. So be free, drop the knee and ski! TM

[Lo-Fi]

Yes, you want weight on the “rear” ball of foot but how you get it there and feel it there is really important. THus, the tele stance is tricky(and highly debatable) but can really define your turning success.

I’ve tried to grab a few images that represent the stance that I aim for and I think looks modern and optimal. I must add the caveats: one guy’s humble opinion; the stance doesn’t necessarily look like this at every moment, nor in every condition; there’s no intention to disparage anyone’s style or opinions…

The better stance tends to have the rear foot tucked under you a bit more, (maybe better illustrated by a deeper stance- butt cheek to Achilles at the lowest bottom), shoulders closer to over the hips, and this almost guarantees more weight on this inside/rear/“under you” foot:

The “lesser” stance with the rear foot behind you, with the weight and balance too forward on the front foot or tilting the upper body and or front knee too far forward over the front foot:

[tkarhu]

In some of the photos @Lo-Fi posted, skiers look like they are just dropping a rear knee. Rear legs and hips look like they have relatively little muscle activation.

However, on skinnies you need to more actively press your rear ball of foot, when turning. I feel an active lengthening on the right side of my body there. This makes a stance look slightly different.

To me, looks angulation and like dropping the rear ski hip as part of the body position?

http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 5457e11fbd

Even some heavy gear photos make me feel the rear leg and hip muscle activations I do on skinnies. @Stephen posted the photo above in another thread.

With NNN-BC, and in the photo above position:

• When you pressure the ball of your right foot, there is a downward pressing muscle activation from your right waist down to your right foot.

• And, having an upper body rotation to the left, there is an upwards activation from your right hip upwards, on the right side of your trunk.

The difference comes from downhill cable binding strong springs, I think. (For cables, maybe there are other mechanisms of resistance in NTN) Modern cable bindings transmit power more effectively than NNN-BC flexors, when you lift your rear heel. With NNN-BC you need to create the rear ski pressure more with your muscles.

Could there be a difference between carved and skidded turns, too? In Lo-Fi photos, turns look like carving. However, with double camber skinnies, you often need to skid. The above photo turn looks like skidding, too. Maybe the skier has also lighter gear, because landscape and snow look like off-piste.

[lowangle al]

Your stance may change on different gear, especially boots, but the one constant is to be back far enough in relation to your feet to easily weight the rear ski. I think people start out with their center of gravity too far forward over their skis.

[lowangle al]

Here’s an oldie. Tight stance, but those long poles got a go. When I’m making turns I like my poles at 120cm or 110 is even better. I’m 5’10”

[Nick BC]

I still think back fondly to the days when Dickie Hall did his tele camps. He did one above the Mt. Baker ski area in the late eighties or maybe the early nineties (age and decrepitude is doing a number on my memory ). My one main takeaway was “step the uphill ski back”. The lightbulb came on and stepping back really helped instinctively to weight the rear ski.

[Lo-Fi]

In some of the photos @Lo-Fi posted, skiers look like they are just dropping a rear knee. Rear legs and hips look like they have relatively little muscle activation.

However, on skinnies you need to more actively press your rear ball of foot, when turning. I feel an active lengthening on the right side of my body there. This makes a stance look slightly different.

They are dropping the rear knee for sure, but not "just". I'm suggesting that it takes some focus and effort (it's the real tele burn) to tuck that foot more under you than let it lag behind you.

Actually, many will say that it is once they are riding that rear ski under them that the tele turn magic happens. Rather than the 50/50 it happens when it feels like you are more 60/40 (rear/front).

I think you are right about skinnies being different. Without the duckbill to leverage beyond your toes, it's tougher to get that feeling of ball of foot pressure (of course, NTN guarantees it without the duckbill). Also, while not only feeling like you are on your tip toes, the skinnier ski is less laterally stable - it's like walking a tightrope on your toes, even when you are trying to tuck that foot under you and ride and edge/arc that rear ski.

The overall effect makes me think people adopt a more forward, front foot stance on skinnier skis and especially with narrower NNN BC, NNN and likely Xplore too (not to mention when the boot sole is too stiff fore & aft!) because it feels/is more stable and powerful with that gear. It's not surprising that it also feels like it takes a lot of muscular effort to weight that rear foot when it is more behind you.

I'm suggesting with the pictures though, that on more downhill oriented gear, you ideally want that more over-the-back-foot stance vs more forward foot or behind you foot stances. I've often seen that skinny ski stance by skiers on meatier equipment and perhaps they might benefit from tucking the foot under more.