x3
Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
- GrimSurfer
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
I’m surprised that the Xplore didn’t incorporate a simple cam-and-lever system to move the flexor closer/further from the front of the boot. This would have allowed the same flexor to be used in free pivot (forward, allowing greater uninterrupted rotation) and stiff (rearward to resist boot rotation) modes.telerat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:39 pmIt almost doesn't compress and makes the sole flex instead, so it increases resistance to flexing the boot significantly. I have unfortunately not tested it properly on a long and steep descent yet, but expect that I will like it from the testing I have done so far. It is far too restrictive though for XC skiing any distance and I'd like a flex in-between the normal and stiff for all-round use as changing the flex is harder than needed and I would only do it when there is a prolonged descent. The normal flex is fine for covering distance on flat terrain and nordic/touring skates.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.
Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
They more or less solved this on NNN boots for skiathlon https://madshus.com/en-us/p/redline-ski ... boots-2023. It has the fore/aft flex of a classic boot and the lateral/torsional stability of a skate boot. Only problem is that it’s such a niche sport that it’s pretty much impossible to buy one.Lo-Fi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:12 pmI'm a bit surprised, incredulous and disappointed that manufacturers have not been able to innovate enough to solve the fore/aft flex vs. lateral/torsional stability challenge - especially on their latest and greatest marketing vehicle, Xplore. Unfortunately, I think they continue to flub the flex on some of the NNN-BC and Xplore boots.
I don’t imagine the number of people that would buy such a boot for light touring on NNN BC or XP can ever pay for the development cost of such a boot. Pretty sure the only reason the NNN version exists is because of sponsored athletes and there’s probably some FIS rule that says you can’t race on any custom, non-commercially available, equipment so Madshus has to at least put it on a website to make it look like you can buy them.
Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
That seems like the sole is totally rigid? I think fine for k&g (maybe not ideal?) but the concept wouldn’t be good for turns, especially tele turns. I can do k&g on AT (tech) gear and skins, doesn’t seem bad with the free pivot plus totally rigid sole. Regularly use T2s with Voile fishscale skis and Voile Switchbacks with their totally free pivot and it seems OK k&g until you get to turning. A good compromise is to keep the toe piece on the Switchbacks locked, but the cables and cuffs loose so you can have both touring and turning on mixed terrain.beeeweee wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:51 pmThey more or less solved this on NNN boots for skiathlon https://madshus.com/en-us/p/redline-ski ... boots-2023. It has the fore/aft flex of a classic boot and the lateral/torsional stability of a skate boot. Only problem is that it’s such a niche sport that it’s pretty much impossible to buy one.Lo-Fi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:12 pmI'm a bit surprised, incredulous and disappointed that manufacturers have not been able to innovate enough to solve the fore/aft flex vs. lateral/torsional stability challenge - especially on their latest and greatest marketing vehicle, Xplore. Unfortunately, I think they continue to flub the flex on some of the NNN-BC and Xplore boots.
I don’t imagine the number of people that would buy such a boot for light touring on NNN BC or XP can ever pay for the development cost of such a boot. Pretty sure the only reason the NNN version exists is because of sponsored athletes and there’s probably some FIS rule that says you can’t race on any custom, non-commercially available, equipment so Madshus has to at least put it on a website to make it look like you can buy them.
- telerat
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
I also had thoughts in the same direction after trying the hard flexor; The hard flexor is so stiff that it could be just a block that stops the boot from pivoting and engages the sole flex, or moves out of the way for free pivot. I imagined a binding for top tours that has an easy switch between the modes, possibly with ski brakes to ease step-in, as it would be easier if the ski stayed put and it would stop the ski from running away otherwise. A moveable block could also eliminate the current small gap between the boot and hard flexor, that is needed to facility step-in, but gives a little play before the flex engages.GrimSurfer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:43 pmI’m surprised that the Xplore didn’t incorporate a simple cam-and-lever system to move the flexor closer/further from the front of the boot. This would have allowed the same flexor to be used in free pivot (forward, allowing greater uninterrupted rotation) and stiff (rearward to resist boot rotation) modes.telerat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:39 pmIt almost doesn't compress and makes the sole flex instead, so it increases resistance to flexing the boot significantly. I have unfortunately not tested it properly on a long and steep descent yet, but expect that I will like it from the testing I have done so far. It is far too restrictive though for XC skiing any distance and I'd like a flex in-between the normal and stiff for all-round use as changing the flex is harder than needed and I would only do it when there is a prolonged descent. The normal flex is fine for covering distance on flat terrain and nordic/touring skates.
A binding with an engageable and tunable flex might also be an alternative, but seems more complex to implement and I am skeptical about weight and reliability.
The Xplore sole was much stiffer than I assumed and wanted first, but I understand the reason after testing the stiff flexor. I think hiking would have benefitted from a more rockered sole as P.T. Gamme wrote in the original review on utemagasinet.no, but it is still better than 75mm and much better than plastic telemark boots (75mm or NTN).
- Johnny
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
No, there is only one offical, commercial version of the hard flexor available on the market. The one you are talking about was the testing prototype sent years ago to Alfa and Asnes, and they were never available for sale. I have the one available on the shelves... And it's not even half as stiff as the hard NNN-BC ones...
It sure would help a beginner to keep its balance. Or at least, it would help getting back on balance when you lose it. But not very significantly...
Yep, Free-pivot all the time!
There is something about complete freedom of movement that words simply cannot express.
I like freaking stiff flexors, and I like no flexors at all. They are both fun. I like to have different options to choose from. It keeps boredom at bay...
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
- GrimSurfer
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
The memory foam in the heel of that boot is a nice touch. More of that in BC boots would be nice for slim heeled users.beeeweee wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:51 pmThey more or less solved this on NNN boots for skiathlon https://madshus.com/en-us/p/redline-ski ... boots-2023. It has the fore/aft flex of a classic boot and the lateral/torsional stability of a skate boot. Only problem is that it’s such a niche sport that it’s pretty much impossible to buy one.Lo-Fi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:12 pmI'm a bit surprised, incredulous and disappointed that manufacturers have not been able to innovate enough to solve the fore/aft flex vs. lateral/torsional stability challenge - especially on their latest and greatest marketing vehicle, Xplore. Unfortunately, I think they continue to flub the flex on some of the NNN-BC and Xplore boots.
I don’t imagine the number of people that would buy such a boot for light touring on NNN BC or XP can ever pay for the development cost of such a boot. Pretty sure the only reason the NNN version exists is because of sponsored athletes and there’s probably some FIS rule that says you can’t race on any custom, non-commercially available, equipment so Madshus has to at least put it on a website to make it look like you can buy them.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.
- Tom M
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
Most people know what the term Full Monty means, now I propose a new term, Full Johnny. It has a great ring to it and not derogatory in any fashion. So when someone asks you how the skiing was today you can reply "Amazing, I went Full Johnny" and don't explain it. It will be a telemark talk secret.Johnny wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:06 am
Yep, Free-pivot all the time!
There is something about complete freedom of movement that words simply cannot express.
I like freaking stiff flexors, and I like no flexors at all. They are both fun. I like to have different options to choose from. It keeps boredom at bay...
- GrimSurfer
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- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:56 am
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Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
I think it speaks to where skiers can take their proficiency instead of playing equipment “whack-a-mole” by continually mixing and matching bindings, flexors, bumpers, cables, rods, boots, and unorthodox waxing.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.
- Johnny
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- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 pm
- Location: Quebec / Vermont
- Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
- Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
- Occupation: Full-time ski bum
Re: Xplore & the advantages of stiff stole for XC
Tom M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:01 amMost people know what the term Full Monty means, now I propose a new term, Full Johnny. It has a great ring to it and not derogatory in any fashion. So when someone asks you how the skiing was today you can reply "Amazing, I went Full Johnny" and don't explain it. It will be a telemark talk secret.
No cables, no flexors, no helmets, no clothes.
GrimSurfer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:16 amI think it speaks to where skiers can take their proficiency instead of playing equipment “whack-a-mole” by continually mixing and matching bindings, flexors, bumpers, cables, rods, boots, and unorthodox waxing.
People playing the game and doing exactly what they are expected to do are not only missing the point, but they are also missing all the fun. People stuck in the past and older technology will never be able to see and even apprehend new innovations and progress, blinded by their own ignorance and their retarded last millennium beliefs. But one day, sooner or later, in a life-changing enlightening moment, these non-playing characters will come to realize the truth. And sadly, at this point, they will start regretting their entire life...
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."