This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips / Telemark Francais Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web since 1998. East, West, North, South, Canada, US or Europe, Backcountry or not.
This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Yikes. Disclaimer. The last time I had a statics and dynamics class, I was as a Freshman in Engineering School. Just to give everyone a chuckle, this photo is of me, and yes, the slide rule was a thing and we used punch cards for computer programming. Oh and just so you know, the green beanie with the "M" was a hazing ritual that all freshmen had to wear. How times have changed.
Tom.jpg
This morning I set up two food scales, one under the tip and the other under the tail of an Xplore mounted Traverse 78 and did a very simple test to confirm what we all already know- the flexor transfers force from the foot to the tip of the ski. Which is better, a spring cable or a stiff flexor? Just for fun, ask an Alpine AT skier and they would laugh at the notion of any control without a fixed heel. Since I'm not proficient in the science of skiing I have to rely a bit more on magic. If I can't explain the unexplainable, then magic is my fallback position. At any rate, I'm working on a video, and spoiler alert, there won't be any magic involved, and very little science, but there will be my thoughts on the subject. It will be released on my YouTube channel Jan 13 if the world is still spinning.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - A. Clark
Ha ha. Quite right!
Magic requires nothing more than belief. Technology requires understanding.
Some folks focus on what they believe they’re doing to their skis.
Others try to better understand what their skis are actually doing.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.
Had my first big tur on Xplore yesterday-
several hours of backcountry trail and glade skiing in Upper Nashwaak hills.
18kms total distance- all breaking trail in deep snow
many laps in hardwood glades-
total ascent 1435m
total descent 1440m
Fischer E109 Tour- grip-waxed base
Xplore Binding with standard and hard flexor- also tested free-pivot plate
Alaska XP boot
I can say that the Xplore binding + current "hard" flexor offers more potential stability than NNNBC or NN-3pin.
I say "potential" stability because NNNBC certainly offers similar stability as long as your foot is weighted and engaged in the binding rails- XP maintains stability even with the foot completely extended.
Ski edge control is better with Xplore than NNNBC/NN-3pin.
vs 3pin with cable-
The current "hard" XP flexor does not offer the degree of resistance that many 75mm cable/cartridge bindings do.
But for my typical setup- XP with the "hard" flexor is all the resistance I need-
I ended up leaving the hard flexor in for almost the entire tur- switching to the free-privot for one very steep extended climb with skins (this was the only section that I needed skins).
Yes- the flexor could offer a lot more resistance if it were to approach the resistance offered by many "cable" bindings- but, for me the "hard" flexor is just right for the BC Nordic touring I do in hilly terrain.
So for me the xcD performance of Xplore is better overall than 3pin-cable on the light end of the ski spectrum-
At the moment, I don't know that XP is enough for a 100mm ski (e.g. my Altai Kom)- even with the Free boot-
but I certainly think it is enough to ride, drive and charge on skis at least up to ~80mm-
For example, it is perfectly suited to charge on my Rabb 68- and I think would also be fantastic on my 78mm Guide/Annum.
(I have no plans to test it on a wider ski- planning on sticking with 75mm + plastic boots on my Kom)
I look forward to reports from those using XP on even wider skis (e.g. 80mm Voile Objective).
Current conclusion- I prefer XP over 3pin-cable on Ingstad/E109 class and Rabb 68/S98 class skis.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
So for me the xcD performance of Xplore is better overall than 3pin-cable on the light end of the ski spectrum-
At the moment, I don't know that XP is enough for a 100mm ski (e.g. my Altai Kom)- even with the Free boot-
but I certainly think it is enough to ride, drive and charge on skis at least up to ~80mm-
For example, it is perfectly suited to charge on my Rabb 68- and I think would also be fantastic on my 78mm Guide/Annum.
(I have no plans to test it on a wider ski- planning on sticking with 75mm + plastic boots on my Kom)
I look forward to reports from those using XP on even wider skis (e.g. 80mm Voile Objective).
Current conclusion- I prefer XP over 3pin-cable on Ingstad/E109 class and Rabb 68/S98 class skis.
I'm glad that you had such a great outing on the Xplore system. Last year I had two sets of S-Bound 98's mounted, one with Voile 3 pins and the other with the Xplore. I skied them on the same slopes, one right after another. Then I skied the two different systems at the same time, the Xplore/Free on one foot and the 3 pin/Alfa Greenland on the other foot. It was after that outing that I decided to switch all my off trail XC skis to the Xplore system, so there is no guessing where I stand. I'm completely happy with my Objectives/Free/Xplore setup. I had skied the Objectives for a couple of seasons with the Voile 3 pin that I could use with either a hardwire or spring cable, but I mostly skied them without. I'm still skiing the Switchback X2 with my plastic boot downhill setup on a set of Voile Hyper V6's, so I haven't abandoned the heel spring entirely, but for XCD, the Xplore system works well for me. I've read several suggestions that Rottefella should have designed the system with the option for a spring cable. It would not have been that difficult, but I suspect that they felt there was no reason to just duplicate the 75 mm spring heel experience with just a different toe attachment. For those still on the fence, there is a hardware store option for creating a Frankenstein Xplore system with a spring option.
Last edited by Tom M on Thu Jan 19, 2023 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm completely happy with my Objectives/Free/Xplore setup. I had skied the Objectives for a couple of seasons with the Voile 3 pin that I could use with either a hardwire or spring cable, but I mostly skied them without.
Cool. That is what I remember from your reports and videos.
What are the typical snow conditions that you are using the Objective + XP?
Would you use that setup on consolidated snow or the narrower S-Bound 98?
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
Cool. That is what I remember from your reports and videos.
What are the typical snow conditions that you are using the Objective + XP?
Would you use that setup on consolidated snow or the narrower S-Bound 98?
The Objectives/Xplore/Free combination is amazing when I'm touring for turns. Just a blast for the typical soft snow conditions we have in my area. I've been skiing them more this season than I have my 98's. The total mounted weight of my Objectives @ 178 is only 5.92 lbs. My S-Bound 98's @ 179 weigh 5.56 lbs. Just for reference, the Voile Hardwire binding itself is 2.8 lbs and retails for $259. I know everyone is complaining about the cost of the Xplore binding, mainly because they are comparing the price to the typical NNNBC setup, but for the sake of this thread, the price and performance should be compared to the hardwire with a supportive leather boot. I spent a lot of time skiing the 98's with both the Frees and Alaska XP's last season, but this year I've only skied the 98's with the Vistas. As you know, the 98's and the Objectives are very different skis and I'll pick one over the other depending on the tour intent and terrain, and whether or not I want the feel of an XC ski or a downhill ski. In the video that I'm releasing tomorrow (1/20), I'm skiing the Objective with the Frees, standard flexor. The video is a compilation of two days I spent skiing with @Bavarian Cream. Day one we skied 1,850 feet of vertical in very deep and soft warm snow, and on day two we skied 2,140 feet of vertical with snow conditions that varied from amazing powder at the top on NW aspects to heavier and thinner snow at the lower elevations on S aspects. @Bavarian Cream was skiing 98's and leathers on the 2nd day, on some fairly steep slopes I might add, and they worked very well for him. His skis, with the XC camber and central grove were better suited for the flat approach but the Objectives and the Xplore system was better suited than the 98's on the deeper and steeper downhill sections.
Wow Tom, your hardware store Frankenbinding cobbling could result in a real kick in the ass if a person were to get too zealous whilst kicking n’ gliding. Maybe using a stiffer spring would get you up on your tips.
More seriously though, the comment you made about cost and comparing it to the right non XP binding in the context of this thread provides food for thought.
Damn I wish we’d get some snow. Crusty, icy conditions here. Easier to walk in it 😕
