Xplore vs. 3pin+cables

[GrimSurfer]

Don't forget, Tom doesn't work here.

That’s why it was a request. Whether Tom wants to do it, or has time time to do it, is up to him. No hurt feelings either way.

His videos suggest that he’s an analytical skier and takes an objective approach to things. I’m hoping he’s curious enough to be interested in what might come out of the experiment… might be good material for subsequent YouTube videos.

[Stephen]

I'm amused, but really, boys, do you need a time out?
Cookies and milk and a nap?

I know @GrimSurfer burned a lot of good will earlier on, but can't we just move on.
Forgive and forget?
Trust but verify?
Seems like he asked a perfectly reasonable question, and questions are refreshing.

Someone will or wont take on the measurement.
Heck, if I had the time and setup, I'm geek enough to do it.

Carry on...

[TheMusher]

Haha sorry Stephen, just an honest attempt to explain that the answer to Grim's request already lies in the study done by Tom.

It would be interesting to repeat the experiment with scales under the front and back of the ski. That would quantify the difference in tip pressure.

Thoughts?

... contaminated with slight frustration that 20 pages of physics seems to be a seedless fruit

Now I'll have some milk.

[Stephen]

Humor goes a long way.
I attribute that to surviving 20+ years of marital bliss.

We're able to laugh at each other, as well as our selves.

[Tom M]

Yikes. Disclaimer. The last time I had a statics and dynamics class, I was as a Freshman in Engineering School. Just to give everyone a chuckle, this photo is of me, and yes, the slide rule was a thing and we used punch cards for computer programming. Oh and just so you know, the green beanie with the "M" was a hazing ritual that all freshmen had to wear. How times have changed.

This morning I set up two food scales, one under the tip and the other under the tail of an Xplore mounted Traverse 78 and did a very simple test to confirm what we all already know- the flexor transfers force from the foot to the tip of the ski. Which is better, a spring cable or a stiff flexor? Just for fun, ask an Alpine AT skier and they would laugh at the notion of any control without a fixed heel. Since I'm not proficient in the science of skiing I have to rely a bit more on magic. If I can't explain the unexplainable, then magic is my fallback position. At any rate, I'm working on a video, and spoiler alert, there won't be any magic involved, and very little science, but there will be my thoughts on the subject. It will be released on my YouTube channel Jan 13 if the world is still spinning.

1/13/22 Edit. Here is a link to my video.
The big unanswered question that remains is "What is the power of a Cliff Bar" (not sponsored)

[TheMusher]

Tom - I had to look a few times to see what that black pipe you were smoking was..

As a mere economist, I’m tuned!

[GrimSurfer]

Yikes. Disclaimer. The last time I had a statics and dynamics class, I was as a Freshman in Engineering School. Just to give everyone a chuckle, this photo is of me, and yes, the slide rule was a thing and we used punch cards for computer programming.
Tom.jpg

This morning I set up two food scales, one under the tip and the other under the tail of an Xplore mounted Traverse 78 and did a very simple test to confirm what we all already know- the flexor transfers force from the foot to the tip of the ski. Which is better, a spring cable or a stiff flexor? Just for fun, ask an Alpine AT skier and they would laugh at the notion of any control without a fixed heel. Since I'm not proficient in the science of skiing I have to rely a bit more on magic. If I can't explain the unexplainable, then magic is my fallback position. At any rate, I'm working on a video, and spoiler alert, there won't be any magic involved, and very little science, but there will be my thoughts on the subject. It will be released on my YouTube channel Jan 13 if the world is still spinning.

Cool, man. Thanks. This is important work.

Part II of the experiment is repeating it with feet in the boots and weight on the ski. Is the difference the same as the previous test? In absolute or % of total force? (The boot will likely flex differently with a skier in it because, as you know, we put most of our weight on the ball of our foot.)

IDK if Part II is best done with both skis weighted or one ski weighted… open to suggestions!

Part 3 of the experiment is moving the scales… to confirm that the weight transfer is the same along the ski. If it is, then we need to rethink what we mean when we say tip pressure? Is it really tip pressure or ski weighting?

It might seem like semantics but figuring this all out will allow us to better understand what’s really going on… besides what was observed in the first experiment.

Also…

Could try three angles (0 degrees, n degrees, n+ degrees) to determine if the flexor has a linear or non linear response. We’ve been talking about his elsewhere and the best conceptualization so far is that the rubber deforms instead of compressing. So that deformation might have an effect on linearity.

I’m looking forward to this video more than the next episode of Yellowstone!

[JohnSKepler]

Forgive me for not reading in detail through the previous 12 pages, but has anyone tried using a cable with the Xplore binding? Seems a fairly simple frankenbinding would give you the best of both worlds. A modern binding for which you could buy new boots and that forms a very rigid, torquey connection to the ski, and the benefit of the spring/cable system over the bumper. For me it's about not waiting for some old leathers to pop up on ebay and hoping they fit and aren't cracked. Homey, done played that game.

@Tom M , I didn't use a slide rule and missed punch cards by one semester but I can program FORTRAN in any language and cut my teeth on a Vax 11/785. I bet you were putting 72 column Fortran code on those punch cards, weren't you? Still the fastest scientific computing language.

[GrimSurfer]

We were talking about Xplores and cables a while back in this thread…

IDK if the plastic would do well with a cable (plastics aren’t great for handing high stress points or friction). The answer might (eventually) be an intermediate steel plate underneath to accept the cables.

Good call looping Tom into this. His ear might be pretty close to the ground on future product development.

[lowangle al]

We were talking about Xplores and cables a while back in this thread…

IDK if the plastic would do well with a cable (plastics aren’t great for handing high stress points or friction). The answer might (eventually) be an intermediate steel plate underneath to accept the cables.

Good call looping Tom into this. His ear might be pretty close to the ground on future product development.

I think there is a system that uses tech toes with a hard wire cable and I believe it's mounted to the ski.