Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

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snow-mark
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by snow-mark » Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:42 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:53 pm
snow-mark wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:42 am
I think most would agree that NNN (all types) is worse when it comes to snow build up. It’s easy to remove snow from a 3pin, but NNN has the smaller spaces and crevices. So far I’ve had the most issues with snow building up in the groove behind the toe clip mechanism.
My personal experience is a few moderately forceful scrape-stomps of the boot against the rails takes care of this- YMMV.
I’ll try that. Was giving me issues yesterday as the snow was wet in the lower elevations of our tour. It’s like having a pebble under my foot.

But overall I am so far happy with NNNBC set up.

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snow-mark
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by snow-mark » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:09 am

Roelant wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:56 pm
The sole type and construction has a big impact on how boots perform. So the Svartisen BC and 75 are different in practice. The Alaska BC is, supposedly, quite a bit stiffer than the 75.

The NNN-BC boot with the stiffest sole is according to UTE magasinet: the Crispi Stetind, followed by Alaska BC and Svartisen BC. The upper part and lacing system offers best overall control for Crispi Svartisen, then Stetind and Alaska BC (the latter two are not compared directly so the order between them may be reverse).
A stiffer sole can be detrimental for XC touring as well, but I liked my Stetinds before they earned their retirement. I tried on Alaska BC only once and I did not like the way they felt on my feet, but it was about 6-7 years ago so I don't remember why exactly. In any case the Alaska BC has excellent reputation and value for money.
3 years ago I went from NNN-BC to 75mm.

A few highlights from my thoughts:

- I never felt that icing up was a reason to step away from the NNN-BC system.
- The ergonomics (user friendliness) of NNN-BC as a binding system are overall better than 75mm, IMO.
- I felt that I had reached the limits of the the stiffest NNN-BC boots in terms of torsional stiffness, and 75mm had several options I could explore.
- I find 75mm boots much more comfortable and better to walk with.
- The most comfortable touring boots I tried for any system are Crispi Bre 75mm.
- DH control may be comparable between NNN-BC and 75mm with boots of equivalent stiffness (e.g. Crispi Bre and Stetind).
- A cable on the 75mm system can significantly help to add pressure to the front of the ski in telemark turns, especially with burlier boots.
- The burliest 75mm touring boots overall on the market now are Scarpa T4 and many people have fit problems with them, me included.
- the burliest 75mm leather touring boots on the market now are Fischer Transnordic 75, and they fulfill all my needs for DH oriented XC boot. Some others do not like them mainly because of problems with painful flexing points of the internal structure.
- I tried the Alico Ski March 75mm (new from Ebay) and have had bad luck with them in terms of QC (severely twisted sole out of the box) and reliability (delamination after 1-2 uses).
Great summary. Thanks. I’m just now trying NNNBC for the first time (let’s just say I’m not an early adopter :lol: ). I really like it. I have it NNNBC Magnum + Alaskas on a new set of Ingstads and I find the downhill control to be really good for the type of skiing I do. Yesterday on a heavily track, curvy downhill section, I let it rip and was easily able to get the edges down for quick confident turns. I was really impressed.



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snow-mark
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by snow-mark » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:13 am

@lilcliffy interesting about the exoskeleton on the Svartisens.

Why don’t more boots have this system? I have a set of 10-year old Fischer BCX875s. They are generally too stiff for K&G, but when I want to chase turns, they work quite well. I lace them up somewhat loose and leave the buckles pretty loose for the ascent. I can ignore the laces for the downhill and leave them a little loose, but crank down the buckles for the downhill. This works really well.
0C579C68-B716-436B-B567-182D89D04BEC.jpeg



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fisheater
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by fisheater » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:15 am

@Rodbelan
I ran across these sold by the guys from Altai skis.
I’m not sure how it compares to the Alaska, but the duckbill is thicker. It’s an Alico boot, the quality should be good.
https://us-store.altaiskis.com/product/ ... ring-boot/



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wabene
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by wabene » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:35 am

snow-mark wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:13 am
@lilcliffy interesting about the exoskeleton on the Svartisens.

Why don’t more boots have this system? I have a set of 10-year old Fischer BCX875s. They are generally too stiff for K&G, but when I want to chase turns, they work quite well. I lace them up somewhat loose and leave the buckles pretty loose for the ascent. I can ignore the laces for the downhill and leave them a little loose, but crank down the buckles for the downhill. This works really well.

0C579C68-B716-436B-B567-182D89D04BEC.jpeg
My experience with the Svartsen is similar to yours with the 875's. I had the BCX6's which have an upper cuff only that didn't have a buckle, just Velcro. It was very flimsy and didn't provide much imo. The plastic material on the Svartsen exoskeleton is different and almost appears to be cut by hand. A little rough on the edges, but it is really stiff and seems of great quality. I find it very effective.



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lilcliffy
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:58 am

Yes- the exoskeleton on the Svartisen is very well designed and effective.

I am also farmiliar with the Fischer BCX875- my friend had a pair- unfortunately had sole separation issues with them.

The exoskeletons of Svartisen and the BCX875 are quite similar, but the upper section of the Svartisen is more substantial and supportive.

The upper section of the BCX875 exoskeleton is identical to the equivalant -generation BCX6.

Regardless- very similar and excellent Nordic touring boots.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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stilltryin
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by stilltryin » Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:30 am

Wondering about the Svartisen 75 and if they would work with skis that I typically ski with T3, for example, Kom, V6, S-112, Alpina X-Terrain (108-66-96, but pretty heavy). Anybody have experience with these boots and similar skis?



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lilcliffy
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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09 pm

stilltryin wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:30 am
Wondering about the Svartisen 75 and if they would work with skis that I typically ski with T3, for example, Kom, V6, S-112, Alpina X-Terrain (108-66-96, but pretty heavy). Anybody have experience with these boots and similar skis?
I don't have the Svartisen 75- I have the Lofoten 75.
I can drive my Kom with the Lofoten in ideal conditions- I need at least my T4 when conditions are not ideal.
I have also used my Asolo Extreme on the Kom (i.e. equivalent upper support to the Svartisen)- gives me more than the Lofoten on the Kom, but still not enough when conditions are not ideal.

I know that I am a mere mortal- but I really don't see how anyone can hold a ~100mm ski on edge on consolidated snow without a rigid Telemark boot...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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stilltryin
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Favorite boots: Scarpa T3; Alpina Alaska NNN-BC
Occupation: ExFed

Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by stilltryin » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:44 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09 pm
...
I know that I am a mere mortal- but I really don't see how anyone can hold a ~100mm ski on edge on consolidated snow without a rigid Telemark boot...
I didn't know how magical the Svartisen exoskeleton just might be.



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Re: Alternatives to Alpina Alaska 75mm

Post by GrimSurfer » Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:06 pm

Most magic is created in the marketing department these days. The cool factor sells… so you either colour your boots bright red, fit an exo-skeleton, or give them the SWAT team look. Fit reigns supreme though.
We dreamed of riding waves of air, water, snow, and energy for centuries. When the conditions were right, the things we needed to achieve this came into being. Every idea man has ever had up to that point about time and space were changed. And it keeps on changing whenever we dream. Bio mechanical jazz, man.



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