Rottefella 75mm with cable binding- riser or no riser?

[Krummholz]

Found a mounting sheet if anyone needs it.

[fgd135]

Thanks for that template! Just a couple of weeks ago, I installed a set of Cobras and risers, and this would've been a big help...but I have more of them and the others , too, so this is great.

[phoenix]

Jurassien, those are a fine looking leather boot. Care to tell us the make and model? They resemble the old Asolo's or Merrell Ultra's.

[Woodserson]

Also, there is a long tradition of taking the 10mm Voile Riser to the tablesaw and sawing off 5mm of the BoF pad so the holes line up correctly. Which many have done to accomodate the Rott ST, and, as I have done.

Has the “long tradition” modification been discussed previously on this forum? I’ve done a search and could find nothing about it. The forum appears to have been in existence since December 2013, so if “many” have done this I’m surprised to find no mention of it.

The holes are not misaligned when a portion of the pad is removed.

I flipped the 10mm riser over and placed it on a table, bottom side up. The 3 holes still didn’t align with the Super Telemark – so it apparently has nothing to do with the ball-of-foot pad.

No hard feelings, but I think the skepticism is unwarranted. I certainly did not come up with the idea myself, but learned about it here, or seen it in the woods, or other places on the internet. I am not the first to do this, I have seen many examples, and I don't mentally catalogue every single place I find a new idea. It is not my idea, I did not come up with it. All I am doing is dashing off some potential fixes, to you, to whomever comes along next, paying it forward. I'm not trying to establish my credentials, I'm not trying to say you are wrong, I'm quickly posting at down moments in an otherwise busy life. You can take it or leave it, mon ami.

Have you attempted to align a Voile binding to the Riser? Voile and Rott have the same hole pattern, it's a standard hole pattern. If there's a discrepancy with the 10mm riser with the Rott then it's probably with the Voile also, then it's probably a production issue with the plastic. Also, I would expect a little variability here and there. If it's off a micron to the left or right, front or back, that's the vagaries of a small industry with little need for extreme levels of perfection. Molds warp, things change slowly over the years, there are not enough people mounting Rott ST's to Voile risers, and things get a little wonky and misaligned. If the 20mm works perfect, use that.

I agree, Voile should not put on their packaging "suitable for all bindings" when the 10mm riser clearly doesn't take the Rott ST without modification to the BoF pad, but it would be interesting to see how the 10mm Riser holes line up with the Voile binding using the underside of the binding as you have. I bet the holes are the same mismatch regardless of binding.

Here is a Voile HD paired next to the Rott ST. Holes line up exactly, they are the same hole pattern.
-Notice that the screw cups in the Rott are recessed and deeper. Not only is the screw longer, but it sits lower and closer to the ski. The Voile screw cup is flanged, and higher. One reason why the Rott screws hit the ski with the 10mm Riser-- the Rott screws are slightly longer and the cups are lower.
-Notice also in the first picture the Rott comes back a little further than the Voile.

Here's my own Rott ST on a 10mm Traverse Riser. Notice where I cut the edge of the BoF pad down, reference the cut line to the screw plugs. I'm not going to unscrew it but the holes must have lined "close enough" to go ahead do it. Again if it wasn't perfect, I didn't sweat it too much to care. I unfortunately don't have a spare unused 10mm riser to look at. The 20mm I have lines up perfect with both bindings. If the Rott ST isn't lining up with the 10mm Riser holes on the flipside, then it can be reasonable to expect that the Voile binding itself doesn't line up perfectly either (minus the issue with the BoF pad to get the ST back enough.)

So it goes.

[Woodserson]

Something else to keep in mind is that the screws are smaller in diameter than the holes in the binding. Set the screws, put the binding kind of in the middle, and then send them home and let the binding settle in place. It might not be perfect, but it will be close enough for most.

I would prioritize centering the two main screws and alllow an offset up in the nose.

[fisheater]

Thank you Mr. Woodserson!

[Jurassien]

Jurassien, those are a fine looking leather boot. Care to tell us the make and model? They resemble the old Asolo's or Merrell Ultra's.

Those are traditional-style 75mm boots with a stitched upper/midsole. They are of Italian manufacture and almost certainly come from the Veneto region in northeast Italy, where almost all boots of that type are manufactured (in fact many ski-boots, even the plastic ones, are made there).

The actual brand is Varg, which is a now-defunct Norwegian brand. I don’t think Varg actually made anything – as far as I understand, they just imported the stuff from Italy and sent boots back there if there were any problems with them. People would send their boots in for repair/resoling and have to wait six months or more to get them back. I think the Norwegians got fed up with them in the end.

You still see the boots occasionally in the vestibules of Norwegian mountain cabins, but they are no longer on the market. Very similar boots are made by Alico and Andrew, either of which might have actually manufactured these ones. I don’t know the model name (perhaps “Skavl”), but if I remember rightly there were three models – a light boot, a more sturdy one and a double boot. This one would be the middle version.

We have some Norwegian members who contribute to this forum, so perhaps they could give some insight into the Varg story and what their countrymen/women thought of the boots.

People sometimes forget that on some ski-tours quite a bit of walking can be involved. I’ve often had to walk several kilometres along gravelled or tarmacked roads and boots of this type are very comfortable for that – they are, after all, basically hiking boots with a built-in lateral stiffener.

[phoenix]

As I suspected, classic Italian boot from one of a few manufacturer's in that down. Alico's, Merrells, Asolo's, etc. I was hoping it was a boot that was currently available; I do search around for used models of that sort periodically. Meanwhile, I do have a pair of the same construction, but a bit lower cut. Thank you for the thorough reply.

[Jurassien]

@Woodserson: Good reply, and thank you for your input, which has been more detailed and relevant to the problem under discussion than other contributions to the thread. I’m not trying to bait you, but I can assure you I’m not making this up. As a picture is worth………..

10mm riser inverted, Voilé toe-piece – perfect alignment:

10mm riser inverted, Rottefella toe-piece – those rear holes are well off-centre.
The misalignment is certainly not in the micron range and although this might be acceptable to some, it is not acceptable to me:

Why should anyone pay for the product and have to modify it when the manufacturer clearly states: “Accepts all 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces”?

[Woodserson]

Woodserson: Good reply, and thank you for your input, which has been more detailed and relevant to the problem under discussion than other contributions to the thread. I’m not trying to bait you, but I can assure you I’m not making this up. As a picture is worth………..

10mm riser inverted, Voilé toe-piece – perfect alignment:
Voilé 1B.JPG

10mm riser inverted, Rottefella toe-piece – those rear holes are well off-centre.
The misalignment is certainly not in the micron range and although this might be acceptable to some, it is not acceptable to me:
Voilé 2B.JPG


Why should anyone pay for the product and have to modify it when the manufacturer clearly states: “Accepts all 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces”?

Oh nice you have a Voile to compare. How are the two bindings together? If you line up the two primary screw holes of the two bindings do the nose holes line up? I just checked with multiple different Voile bindings and mine right up, all the holes are dead-on

I don't remember exactly what the Rott ST looked like on my 10mm riser when I mounted them. If it was a bit off I would have prioritized the two rear ones, and the driven the nose screw into the riser hole and allow it to settle on the binding where it may-- It may not settle perfectly but it would have been completely acceptable for my tolerances, but as they say, your mileage may vary and that's ok. I do think I have a memory that it wasn't lined up perfectly but I can't say for sure or not.

As stated before, I agree with you, that the Traverse 10mm riser should not be sold as being a universal riser as it clearly doesn't accommodate the Rott ST without significant modification of the BoF pad, and then there's the issue of screw hole positions.

People sometimes forget that on some ski-tours quite a bit of walking can be involved. I’ve often had to walk several kilometres along gravelled or tarmacked roads and boots of this type are very comfortable for that – they are, after all, basically hiking boots with a built-in lateral stiffener.

This is exactly why I am so hesitant to plunge into the new Xplore system. Exposed, spring-loaded studs on the boots that can fail in the non-functioning (stuck in the boot) position. It does not mix well with walking over rocky terrain. RandoSkier guy had a problem last year with his wife's boot when one pin got stuck inside the boot during a multi-day trip in Norway. He was able to liberate it with some knife work, but damn.

Question about your skis: Are those skis the Silver with Spooky Fir Woods on the Shovel E99's?