V6 on firm

[jalp]

That's all good technique advice and could probably help.
Looking at the bigger picture, now I know this was bc snow that can be harder than resort hardpack I would switch to P turns or wedge turns. I think the reason I assumed the OP was at the resort was because I wouldn't be doing T turns on hard bc snow with those skis. When the snow isn't fun I don't try to make it so. Everything is relative too, like how hard the snow is.

When I first started using wider skis I found them hard to get weight on the rear skis edge, so they may take some getting used to also.

I think that this is exactly what I needed to hear. I'd been approaching this looking for the "one big thing" that I've been overlooking or forgetting. The combination of conditions, soft boots, significant rocker and unrealistic expectations of myself are probably, in combination, the "one big thing". I should probably not expect to be graceful in those conditions, functional would be nice. P turns and wedge turns, yup.

This is my first pair with both tip and tail rocker as well as the widest that I've ever been on. These are definitely going to take a little getting used to.

I'm super happy with the V6 in it's element. I'm still getting used to them but they were a blast in powder from the first day. Zero complaints there. They just turn, I don't even have to think about it. Not my intent at all to choose these for hard snow, but I'll encounter it often enough.

After re-reading all of the advice and comments, I just have to say that this thread is one of the best early season refreshers ever!

[lowangle al]

The good thing is that they work well for what they were intended for. Possibly your only problem was unrealistic expectations.

[jalp]

Executive Summary: On firm snow, I think V6 tails may wash out easier than some other skis.

@jalp, I took a look at my V6 skis, compared to some others I have.
I now think the V6, on firm snow, could be part of what’s going on.

I laid each ski on a flat surface and marked the front and rear contact point of the base (ski uncompressed).
I then put the ski on an angle (on edge) and compressed it until the edge made full contact with the flat surface, so the ski is arced, like it might be in a turn, and marked the ski where the ski’s rocker (tip and tail) left the flat surface (I know this is not the same as the dynamic environment of ski on snow — best I can do).

Other than the V6, the running surface contact points and the effective edge contact points were essentially the same.
On the V6, the effective edge end point moved away from the tip and tail (toward the middle of the ski) by 2.5” to 3” on both ends.
Plus, the tail of the V6 is quite flexible (soft).
To put it simply, with the V6 on firm snow, there ain’t much back there!
Maybe all that has something to do with the V6 being a good soft snow ski.

In the picture, the far edge of the green tape is the running surface end-point and the the far edge of the yellow tape is the end point of the effective edge (yellow tape is on top of the green tape, except for the V6).
The skis are lined up along the boot center mark on each ski, with the camera lens directly above that mark.
.
E4549DAF-24C6-40ED-8176-9D139255986B.jpeg

Stephen, Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison of effective edge.

When I first got the V6s I did a quick comparison with a pair of Koms. Even at the shorter length of 162, the Koms had a longer effective edge than the V6 at 173. I probably should have written down those measurements but I seem to remember about a 2" difference uncompressed. That's when I started to realize how much of a different experience they were going to be.

[Montana St Alum]

Possibly your only problem was unrealistic expectations.

The secret to happiness is low expectations.

[12gaugesage]

The one drill we all should practise is the telemark sideslip....If you can't sideslip in a good Telemark stance you cant really telemark.
This drill solves heaps of problems...edging, weight distribution, stance

Practise the falling leaf side slip in a telemark stance over and over and over on all your skis skinnies to Fats, skating boots to Scrape Pros. Practise it over and over on side hills, frozen driveways the walls on the side of runs.

Sorry if I sound like a wanker but I love movement analysis. It all still applies to modern technique.

DISCLAIMER...Side slip wont work on waxless skis very well....also foot steering a lot harder on waxless skis.

Reading through this thread, and this really jumped out at me as something I should be doing. I've done side slip drills parallel, especially with my kid to try and get him to comprehend edging. But I'm ashamed to say I've never done them tele, and thinking about it now I can already envision how much it's going to bring out my weaknessess and how messy it's going to be, particularly with my left foot uphill on harpack/crud/ice.

So thank you, now I have something to structure my next ski day around.

Sorry for the hijack...

[fisheater]

The one drill we all should practise is the telemark sideslip....If you can't sideslip in a good Telemark stance you cant really telemark.
This drill solves heaps of problems...edging, weight distribution, stance

Practise the falling leaf side slip in a telemark stance over and over and over on all your skis skinnies to Fats, skating boots to Scrape Pros. Practise it over and over on side hills, frozen driveways the walls on the side of runs.

Sorry if I sound like a wanker but I love movement analysis. It all still applies to modern technique.

DISCLAIMER...Side slip wont work on waxless skis very well....also foot steering a lot harder on waxless skis.

Reading through this thread, and this really jumped out at me as something I should be doing. I've done side slip drills parallel, especially with my kid to try and get him to comprehend edging. But I'm ashamed to say I've never done them tele, and thinking about it now I can already envision how much it's going to bring out my weaknessess and how messy it's going to be, particularly with my left foot uphill on harpack/crud/ice.

So thank you, now I have something to structure my next ski day around.

Sorry for the hijack...

I don’t spend much time riding chairs, or skiing open slopes that lend themselves to drills. I also am a big kid when I am on turning snow and just enjoy the experience. The one thing I do when skiing is the back foot hockey stop. I have been doing the back foot hockey stop as a practice method that it has evolved/devolved into just playing with back foot dominate turning. It definitely isn’t a drill, more like playtime, where I throw in back foot skid turns. Naturally if I’m throwing in back foot skid turns, we are talking about hard snow. Just as I really enjoy making Telemark turns, I really enjoy playing with the back foot in those conditions that allow that kind of play time.

[12gaugesage]

The one drill we all should practise is the telemark sideslip....If you can't sideslip in a good Telemark stance you cant really telemark.
This drill solves heaps of problems...edging, weight distribution, stance

Practise the falling leaf side slip in a telemark stance over and over and over on all your skis skinnies to Fats, skating boots to Scrape Pros. Practise it over and over on side hills, frozen driveways the walls on the side of runs.

Sorry if I sound like a wanker but I love movement analysis. It all still applies to modern technique.

DISCLAIMER...Side slip wont work on waxless skis very well....also foot steering a lot harder on waxless skis.

Reading through this thread, and this really jumped out at me as something I should be doing. I've done side slip drills parallel, especially with my kid to try and get him to comprehend edging. But I'm ashamed to say I've never done them tele, and thinking about it now I can already envision how much it's going to bring out my weaknessess and how messy it's going to be, particularly with my left foot uphill on harpack/crud/ice.

So thank you, now I have something to structure my next ski day around.

Sorry for the hijack...

I don’t spend much time riding chairs, or skiing open slopes that lend themselves to drills. I also am a big kid when I am on turning snow and just enjoy the experience. The one thing I do when skiing is the back foot hockey stop. I have been doing the back foot hockey stop as a practice method that it has evolved/devolved into just playing with back foot dominate turning. It definitely isn’t a drill, more like playtime, where I throw in back foot skid turns. Naturally if I’m throwing in back foot skid turns, we are talking about hard snow. Just as I really enjoy making Telemark turns, I really enjoy playing with the back foot in those conditions that allow that kind of play time.

That's good stuff too, going in my playlist...
I can instantly comprehend the value in playing with the rear foot hockey stop, and imagine how it's going to bring out weaknessess. I'm so geared towards driving the down hill ski, and the more I mess around with T turns the more I become aware of it. I play around with weighting and positioning pretty frequently, and now after reading this I'll be pursuing the rear foot hockey stops a bit when I'm out next time.
Also, like you, I do find it hard to actually be disciplined and drill and work on techniques. It's so fun to just go out and let em rip and enjoy yourself. Still though, I like to have things in mind to meditate on and experiment with.

It's my left foot in left turns in particular that are weaker.
In every other athletic pursuit, (biking, shooting, boxing etc...) I stand orthodox, left foot forward, and I'm just weak in the reverse position.

Basically I need to spend a few days skiing on my left foot.

[Montana St Alum]

[I'm so geared towards driving the down hill ski, and the more I mess around with T turns the more I become aware of it.

It's a distinction with a minor difference, but I don't think of it as the downhill ski. I think of it as the ski on the outside of the turn. There are times when I'll be in a left turn, for example and that outside right ski (which will become my downhill ski) is actually uphill. Thinking of it in terms of outside makes it easier to visualize exactly what that ski's functionality is.

Also, I'm often "feathering" the degree to which I'm angling that trailing ski edge to accomplish what I want.
I particularly notice it as I've continued to work on my carving - which is a weak point, for sure. Hard to see, but as snow conditions vary throughout the turn, I'm modulating that angle on my trailing ski to maintain a consistent arc. I particularly notice it in powder over bumps, where I'll often start a turn with the outside ski uphill from the 3-9 line of the fall line and will have to modulate the rear ski like a rudder.

[Stephen]

@Montana St Alum, so in that last video, for example, what is your front foot / back foot weight distribution like through the turn?

[Montana St Alum]

@Montana St Alum, so in that last video, for example, what is your front foot / back foot weight distribution like through the turn?

This is where I have the most difficulty. When I do it well, it's roughly even, with very slightly more edge angle on the trailing ski to prevent crossing the skis, but with enough weight up front to effectively carve on both skis. If I have too much weight on the back ski (my typical error) the front starts to wash out, and if I don't have enough weight on the back, that knee doesn't stay down well and the rear ski shoots forward. To prevent that, I probably have a little more than 50% weight on the back ski. Also, definitely more knee to ski than my normal stance. It's a work in progress for sure!