Gamme vs Amundsen vs Ousland

[mca80]

I have a friend who wants to get into waxing. He's a big guy, like 230lbs maybe. NW Indiana, USA, so lake effect snow but warm and variable weather down south, can snow and be 20s and go to 40s and back down to 20s, and mostly flat with some rolling hills and forest. I thought Amundsen 208 would be percect. Neptune didnt get any this year, only 201. They do have Ousland 210s. You guys think this would work for him? I hesitate to recommend something that may not be perfect. It will be a 1 ski quiver, but the majority of his skiing will be as I described, plus one trip per year up north by me where the hills are _slightly_ bigger and most likely we will have been nothing warmer than blue or green for a month straight.

Not to hijack thread but wanted to mention when I called Neptune they said they ordered one Kongsvold in 180 so I bit. Probably didn't need them but, well, I am an addict. Maybe next winter Amundsen 194 for me if I can handle that size.

[Stephen]

@@mca80, 208 Amundsen here for less than $400. Shipped to USA:
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/ski/a ... AqEALw_wcB

I don’t think the Ouslands are the ski for your friend.

[mca80]

@@mca80, 208 Amundsen here for less than $400. Shipped to USA:
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/ski/a ... AqEALw_wcB

I don’t think the Ouslands are the ski for your friend.

Those are the waxless. Cant find waxable anywhere. But thanks for info on the Ouslands.

[riel]

@@mca80, 208 Amundsen here for less than $400. Shipped to USA:
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/ski/a ... AqEALw_wcB

I don’t think the Ouslands are the ski for your friend.

Those are the waxless. Cant find waxable anywhere. But thanks for info on the Ouslands.

It looks like Neptune Mountaineering has both waxable Ouslands and waxable Amundsens in lengths up to 208. You may have been looking at the red 2020 Amundsen?

https://neptunemountaineering.com/colle ... 9422338183

[JohnSKepler]

I have MUCH experience with breakable crust- anyone that skis in local climates with extreme winter temperature fluctuations- and ample precipitation- knows what I am talking about.

I moved from Quebec to southern Coastal New Brunswick when I was 10 years-old, and went to college in Halifax- I have much experience with racing-against-time to ski on very temporary soft fresh snow, and then dealing with flash freezing and breakable crust (with soft snow underneath) until the next storm.

Since I moved to the Central NB hills, I thought I had mostly escaped these conditions, but the last two seasons have brought wild fluctuations in temperature, with multiple rainstorms, immediately followed by extreme flash freezing.
We are still getting loads of snowfall- more and more in fact- but, mid-winter rain + extreme cold leads to death crust.

So- perhaps enough blathering...

No one can ski fast enough in the backcountry for a XC ski to plane.
When XC skiing, a rockered ski is pre-bent, which causes the rockered shovel to ride on top of breakable crust- leaving the midsection of the ski breaking trail- YUCK.

A ski with a stiff, low-profile rocker (e.g. Gamme 54) can just get away with it in breakable crust.
At the extreme- skis like the Fischer E99/E109 Xralite are horrible in breakable crust- with the Asnes Sverdrup and Falketind 62 being even worse!

The best BC-XC ski I have ever tested in breakable crust is the Asnes Amundsen.

Advantages of a softer tip?
Softer tips are more flexible- which can be an avantage in certain conditions- can possibly aid turn initiation- and certainly facilitates a fairly wide ski going around a turn in a groomed track.
At the extreme- VERY long Finnish forest skis have soft, reverse-sidecut tips that sort of carve a slice through very deep snow- with the skier supported on the long stable platform (with zero sidecut) that follows behind the tip.

Advantages to a softer shovel?
IMHO there are ZERO XC advantages to a softer shovel.
A softer shovel definitely makes it easier to bend a ski into a downhill turn.
But- a rockered ski doesn't need a soft shovel to bend it into a turn...

Trail breaking in deep soft snow-
I have yet to see any advantages to a rockered shovel when XC skiing and breaking trail in very deep soft snow.
In fact, my personal experience is the opposite.
Again, skis do not plane at XC speeds- therefore, a rockered shovel is simply creating more surface area, resistance and friction.
For example, this is very noticeable when comparing the Asnes Ingstad vs the Combat NATO in very deep snow- the Combat NATO is more efficient.
There is even a noticeable difference between the slightly-rockered Gamme 54 and the Amundsen BC- the Amundsen is more efficient.
NOW- point them downhill- different story! A rockered definitely causes a ski to plane at downhill speed.

XC skiing on consolidated snow?
Rockered skis have shorter effective edges and glide zones on when XC skiing on consolidated snow. The difference is MASSIVE. The Combat NATO is twice as efficient as the Ingstad BC when XC skiing on consolidated snow.
And despite the extra camber underfoot- I remain unconvinced that the Sverdrup is more efficient than the non-rockered, less cambered Nansen on consolidated snow.

Not sure if any of this is helpful- but after more than 10 years of testing Nordic touring skis with rocker- my personal conclusion is that all of them perform beautifully in a narrower range of conditions than their non-rockered rough equivalents.

The Ingtad BC is my favourite Nordic touring ski (when the conditions are ideal)→ the Combat NATO ALWAYS works.
The Sverdrup BC is pure magic (when the conditions are ideal)→ the Nansen ALWAYS works.

The Gamme 54 kinda always works- but I must admit that the Amundsen outperforms it as a straightforward BC-XC ski (I wouldn't have known without access to both).

I am sure there are contexts where the Ousland is ideal- otherwise I would expect it to suck- I personally think I would hate it in my local BC context- but, it just might be ideal in yours!

I find it amazing that skis are more complex than motorcycles. Two slabs of laminated wood, metal, and composites and the system that holds them to your feet are more complex than a machine with many moving parts and thousands of separate pieces. It's really fun learning about all this and thanks to the willing teachers out there who share their experience! However, one dynamic where skiing and dirt biking meet is in how they operate by deforming their 'riding' surface. Maybe that's why it feels so similar thinking about them?

I'm looking for explanations and theory that will let me make the 'best' decision. Fortunately, that's not possible. I say 'fortunately' because a direct application of theory would result in my missing the best part of all this: trying new things and discovering what works best for me and my conditions. It's not really in my nature to rush things, but I'm really just getting started in all this and at my age, feel like I don't have time on my side. I've got to stop thinking that way because none of us know when time will run out. Better to live life as a journey than as an attempt to reach a destination or come to some conclusion.

As far as deciding, I've narrowed it down and will let the market make the decision for me through price and availability. I think @fisheater made the comment that he doesn't want a huge quiver of skis because, I think, he'd rather have a smaller number he was intimately familiar with. Maybe this is how he does things? I see he's a fisherman as well and wonder if this minimalist approach is his MO there too? I'm that way myself, though it is nurture more than nature. I went the quantity route with motorcycles for a while and I wound up with stuff that didn't get ridden much and/or bikes that I didn't ride well because I was constantly splitting time between them. And, I still had maintenance to perform on all of them. Now, I have two.

For XC I'm thinking three. My FT62X for playful stuff. A long, narrow ski for longer relatively less-dynamic stretches (the subject of this thread) and something for deep snow. And maybe, a piste Telemark rig at some point. Oh, and a true back country set up. And...

[mca80]

@@mca80, 208 Amundsen here for less than $400. Shipped to USA:
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/ski/a ... AqEALw_wcB

I don’t think the Ouslands are the ski for your friend.

Those are the waxless. Cant find waxable anywhere. But thanks for info on the Ouslands.

It looks like Neptune Mountaineering has both waxable Ouslands and waxable Amundsens in lengths up to 208. You may have been looking at the red 2020 Amundsen?

https://neptunemountaineering.com/colle ... 9422338183

Says sold out for 208 waxable Amundsen. Also I spoke to a woman there yesterday, she said they had none, none were expected and they weren't ordering any.

[Crayefish]

Says sold out for 208 waxable Amundsen. Also I spoke to a woman there yesterday, she said they had none, none were expected and they weren't ordering any.

Clearly this company is oozing with business acumen and customer satisfaction... haha

Demand... supply?

[fisheater]

@mca80

Have your friend call Ragged Mountain in New Hampshire. They have an Amundsen 208 Waxless. Yes, the waxless pattern doesn’t work super duper, and you will need to wax the scales. It won’t scrape clean easy and he will need to use Goo Gone or similar citrus cleaner. However it does not appear there are many skis available for men that carry a bit of muscle with their bones.
Tell him not to think about it too long, it’s availability has been posted on Telemark Talk

[JohnSKepler]

I pulled the trigger on a set of Gamme54 in 190cm yesterday. Length is right in the sweet spot of my fully geared weight with pack. Ordered from SportAlbert in Germany. Will take about a week if their estimate was any good. I’ll be mating them to Xplore bindings. They had a lot of length choices in the Gamme and others. Also ordered my wife a set of Asnes Liv in 170cm (on a smokin’ deal!)

I’ve been researching this for a few months now and decided on the Gamme for a few reasons. In no real order:
- A pretty broad sample of users indicated the rocker and tip were in a really nice sweet spot for decent performance on breakable crust but still with ‘enough’ rocker to plane.
- Width will let me use tracks when available and appropriate. I know it isn’t a track ski but there are times it will prove useful in my haunts.
- Most say it is fast and efficient over distance
- Slightly better downhill performance over the Amundsen and Ousland. Marketed as more versatile and largely backed up here on TT.
- Really light
- Lots and lots of praise from users sprinkled around North America!

Thanks for all the advice and patience with my questions. I’m sure I’ll have more and hopefully be able to contribute as I learn and gain experience. This will probably be it for this year’s GAS. At some point I would like to add an 80mm ski for deeper powder and a dedicated tele ski with meidjo bindings but there’s no hurry with so much to learn!

[dave52]

Some good info has been already said on this but seeking a little more detail if anyone cares to chime in... comparing the Gamme to Amundsen, how much more easily can the Gamme turn compared to the Amundsen? And where else would would that rockered shovel in the Gamme come in handy?

Really close to rounding out the quiver with an Amundsend but second guessing with the Gamme instead. I'm a little turned off if the Amundsen turns as stiff as the USGIs. Turning these skis feels like bending two by four planks, they're hard to force around and requires too much waiting and equals no fun, IMO. Turning my track skis is easier than the USGIs.

Someone mentioned the Gamme and Amundsen are about same stiffness so curious how much the shovel and tips make a difference between these two skis?

The fastness of the Amundsen is really appealing, especially considering 80%+ of my use case is low to moderate incline on hiking trails, fair bit of breakable crust, but I've been disappointed w the USGIs, they don't like to be forced around if I need to quickly turn to avoid an obstacle or person and stop on narrow wooded trails, especially on steeper descents (they're also heavy SOBs). On the Ingstads I feel much more in control and nimble, even on consolidated snow, but then there's a speed sacrifice and squirrely tracking.