Considering the Gamme

[lowangle al]

So no one gets confused, kick wax can last much longer than the harder Polar wax and I rarely need to put more on during a tour.

If you put on polar before you go out you can call it good. The worst that can happen is you feel like your slowing down. If you're almost done, just go home. If you still have a few miles, take 5 minutes and cork some in (one layer in this situation works) if your skis don't feel faster after that it means you're just tired.

It's all fun, fast skis are nice but not necessary. Not having glide wax won't ruin your day like having the wrong kick wax.

[fisheater]

@Stephen As my Welsh-speaking (1st language) grandmother always said- "English sucks".

I once asked a friend of mine- a Wolastoqey Elder and botanist- what the Wolostoqey word was for paper/white birch (Betula papyrifera).

(I was- and am- super keen for my students to be exposed to and learn some indigenous names for forest plants, animals and other features.)

Her response- "which one?"

My second question- "whadya mean which one- you mean there is more than one?"

Her second response- "there is no one word for white birch in my language- I know of at least 2 dozen names associated with this tree- depending on what it is used for- what stage of development it is in- and sometimes the season that itis used- and I am sure that there are more names for it that I am not aware of".

I can't remember how many names/words the Inuit, the Sami and other northern indigenous peoples have for "snow"...

Again- I'm sorry, but english sucks.

I know that grip wax and kick wax are "the same thing"- the problem is that they are not. I am trying to use these english words with intention and meaning.

Gareth, I know little of the Welsh culture. However I am quite impressed, it must been quite the culture. That is based on an assumption much has been lost to modern culture. Natural Law asserts that there is order to nature, and that man can learn from that order. How much of our humanity we lose when we separate ourselves from nature.

[エイダン.シダル]

After researching the Gamme, I think it could be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm a strong intermediate skier, 185 cm and 78 kg, somewhere around 84 kg with ski gear on. I mostly ski mellow terrain in Yellowstone and want a fast backcountry ski that excels with kick and glide performance.

Questions:

I own a pair of 199 cm Traverse 78s and really enjoy skiing them. However, I'm looking for a faster ski that hauls in skier-created tracks, firm spring snow, and in my favorite conditions, 3-4 inches of dry powder over a firm base. How different is the Gamme from the Traverse? I'd eventually like to build a 3 ski quiver with little overlap.

If I prioritize speed, should I get the 200 or 210 cm? Asnes chart suggests the 200, but it seems most tend to size up from the chart.

Thanks for the input!

Bringing this thread closer to on-track: damn I love my new Gammes. Narrow trails through lower Great Lakes woodlands? Hell, yes. My technique is no great hell, but when the trail turn 90°, or I eat a tree at speed, the Gammes keep me out of trouble. Yes, they also kick and glide.

[tkarhu]

@tkarhu
Asnes Rago- sweet!
I LOVE my Amudsen- I think it is Asnes' best kept secret.

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm). Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

For both skis, I did paper tests in "Baywatch mode" based on lilcliffy's recommendations (first citation below). I am 82 kg / 180 cm. With the Gammes, a paper moves under binding area (and maybe up to x-sking attachment holes on one ski). With the Ragos, a paper moves only very little under one ski. The 200 cm Gamme stiffness sounds optimal, I guess.

Surprisingly, the 200 cm Gammes seem rather too stiff than too soft with my 82 kg. Lilcliffy, how much stiffer are your 210 cm Gammes actually?

FYI Below are some quotations from lilcliffy for context.

When I stood on the 175s they compressed all the way. When I stood on the 180s they did not. For climbing/hilly routes it sounds like the 175 is the better choice.

This is the information you need.
If the camber underfoot of the 180cm is not compressed- when evenly weighted- you are going to have trouble- both uphill and downhill- on steep hills.

Sounds like you got the PERFECT ski!!!!!
Gareth

For example- I weigh 80-81kg without a pack and I completely squash the camber of even my stiffest 210cm Gamme 54 BC/E99 Xtralite.

To clarify- Fisheater can squash the 210cm Gamme 54 with both feet equally weighted- as can I at ~180+lbs (i.e. depending on pack wieght).

[fisheater]

@tkarhu I am not a trained Nordic skier, however I found the Gamme quite easy to ski. I’m 86 kilos / 190 lbs. I am skiing a 210 cm Gamme. I frequently climb straight up sections that have fish scale skis leaving herring bone tracks.
I think you will be quite pleased. BTW, congratulations on the Green Man version. I have that model as well. A ski has to perform, but it’s nice when it looks cool too!

[lilcliffy]

I got my Gammes yesterday, too. To my surprise, the Gammes (200 cm) are stiffer underfoot than the Ragos (205 cm).

We have- for comparison:
- 2 pairs of 210 Gamme 54 (1st and 2nd gen)
- 1 pair of 208 Amundsen BC
- 1 pair of 201 Amundsen BC
(I bought two different lengths of Amundesn because I was worried about it being more cambered than the Gamme)
From my perspective and experience and flexing and skiing- all of the above skis have an almost identical flex and camber profile (ignoring the tip rocker on the Gamme- the cambered effective glide surface of the 210 Gamme is almost identical to the 201 Amundsen).

Also nordic rocker seems very similar on the Ragos and Gammes, when I press the center parts together.

There is no nordic rocker on either 201 or 208 Amundsen- there is a moderate, low-profile (i.e. less than an Ingstad/Sverdrup/E109) nordic rocker on both gen Gammes. The degree and geometry of the Nordic rocker is identical on both 1st and 2nd gen Gamme 54.

For both skis, I did paper tests in "Baywatch mode" based on lilcliffy's recommendations (first citation below). I am 82 kg / 180 cm. With the Gammes, a paper moves under binding area (and maybe up to x-sking attachment holes on one ski). With the Ragos, a paper moves only very little under one ski. The 200 cm Gamme stiffness sounds optimal, I guess.

I can do a paper test on all of these skis- we weigh the same. I can say that I have no issues with compressing the camber and pressuring these skis- even in deep soft snow and steep terrain. (BUT- I am not trying to bend these skis into an arc and a true downhill carved turn either). I was greatly surprised by the Amundsen- I was expecting it to be more cambered for some reason...I chose the 208 over the 201.

Surprisingly, the 200 cm Gammes seem rather too stiff than too soft with my 82 kg. Lilcliffy, how much stiffer are your 210 cm Gammes actually?

I can do a paper test. As a note- I would not personally describe either the Gamme or the Amundsen as significantly cambered skis...They have a very stiff and low-profile camber over their length- they are longitdunially stiff, stable and resistant- as opposed to being significantly cambered underfoot...Regardless- I will check with the paper test!

[lilcliffy]

@tkarhu
(BTW- love that photo of (your daughter?) could easily be either of my two daughters at that age!)
Gareth

[tkarhu]

@tkarhu
(BTW- love that photo of (your daughter?) could easily be either of my two daughters at that age!)
Gareth

Thanks!
Yes, that is my younger daughter
- Teemu

[tkarhu]

I can do a paper test on all of these skis- we weigh the same.

Great! That will be very useful for buying skis online.

For clarity, do you mean by "squashing" a ski that its camber underfoot is fully compressed, when you stand evenly weighted on both skis?

[エイダン.シダル]

I can do a paper test on all of these skis- we weigh the same.

Great! That will be very useful for buying skis online.

For clarity, do you mean by "squashing" a ski that its camber underfoot is fully compressed, when you stand evenly weighted on both skis?

Yeah, I was wondering the same. I'm just under 200lbs dressed and kitted-up, and my 200 Gammes worked perfectly on skied-in, but not trackset, trail: glided when I was on both feet, gripped when I weighted a single foot. I might've gone 10cm longer, but snapped up what I could, when I could.