Åsnes Gamme

[fisheater]

@Cannatonic i believe the trails here in Michigan are quite different than a National Forest hiking trail. When I first started mountain biking, almost 30 years ago trails were more narrow. However the trail I have been skiing is not carved in like a lot of trails that see a lot of bike use. The other interesting thing, is 30 years ago these trails were hiking / cross country ski trails, and signed as such. The trails that are carved in are difficult to herring bone up, but easy to turn on banked turns. The trails that aren’t carved by bikes are still at least 6 feet wide, easy to turn on.
As far as ski length, 210 cm suits my 190 lbs. when I was younger my skiing still relied on strength and athleticism. Now my weight bends the ski, and fortunately I still have enough technique to get by.
@wabene The Green Man graphics are probably the best looking ski I have ever owned. I know the Green Man lives in those blue and teal clothes. Obviously the folks at Åsnes did a far better job with the ski, than the graphics. Maybe Green Man wasn’t cutting it with certain female demographics???

[wabene]

Ha! I suppose so, the new one may appeal more to female tastes. Of course as a man I don't give a damn how my skis look, eh? Ha ha I will probably get them or the modern NATO, that's my delema. I think I need 2 sets of skis, one to learn tele, maybe the Rabb 68 on 3 pin where I have Fischer BCX6(for sale), Crispi Svartson, and some Alico March's on the way and for my NNN BC Crispi's Norland Hook and my old Allina BC 2000's I'm thinking Gamme or NATO. The reason I got the Norland Hook's was because the plastic heal cuff on my Alpina's just shattered last week and the Crispi's were a reasonably priced and available leather NNN BC boot. I did completely cut the plastic cuff off of both of the Alpina's and took them to a cobbler to add two speed hooks on each side of the upper. This super comfortable boot no longer has the same ankle power, but it's still great for k&g. The low Crispi is also more for k&g so I may at some point add another NNN BC boot.

[Woodserson]

Obviously the folks at Åsnes did a far better job with the ski, than the graphics. Maybe Green Man wasn’t cutting it with certain female demographics???

I don't think my wife digs the new graphics. They are weak and he looks weak, and there are no redeeming attractive qualities. It's just bad.

A probably wanted to bring it more inline with the other ski graphics rather than the more cartoon-ish aspect of the Green Man. A shame. A standout ski deserved those stand-out graphics. They could have gone even wilder, 80's neon or something. Maybe @Johnny can come up with an 80's neon graphic for the Gamme.

I don't care what my skis look like... except I care. I like big and bold and different. Pink, rainbow, men, women, I don't care. HELL even a naked Gamme would be better than this, and cooler. I'd totally dig it. And it would really ruffle feathers, just my style. But this just projects ...meh... at least they kept Wilson the Pumpkin!

[Musk Ox]

Obviously the folks at Åsnes did a far better job with the ski, than the graphics. Maybe Green Man wasn’t cutting it with certain female demographics???

I don't think my wife digs the new graphics. They are weak and he looks weak, and there are no redeeming attractive qualities. It's just bad.

A probably wanted to bring it more inline with the other ski graphics rather than the more cartoon-ish aspect of the Green Man. A shame. A standout ski deserved those stand-out graphics. They could have gone even wilder, 80's neon or something. Maybe @Johnny can come up with an 80's neon graphic for the Gamme.

I don't care what my skis look like... except I care. I like big and bold and different. Pink, rainbow, men, women, I don't care. HELL even a naked Gamme would be better than this, and cooler. I'd totally dig it. And it would really ruffle feathers, just my style. But this just projects ...meh... at least they kept Wilson the Pumpkin!

I'm so glad we're finally talking about Åsnes's graphic design decisions. Something actually important.

There is a degree of precedent in their graphics being... ropey. That Predator is, forgive me, disgusting. But it was as if some bat signal went out to the world's graphic artists to use teal in around 2019, and everyone who hopped on that train should be ashamed.

The Amundsens kick arse, the graphics and colour there are super nice.

It was a good design decision to put the front of Nansen's head on the right ski and the back of his head on the left ski so you know which ski is supposed to go on which foot. Those skis look nice top and bottom, I think, even if they do resemble the tail fin of a Norwegian Airlines aeroplane.



Could be worse.

[riel]

Yeah...
The Nordic Rocker thingy does make things weird from a XC perspective- especially on consolidated snow...

The XC performance related to the mounting point of a non-rockered Nordic touring is very straightforward.

But- a ski with Nordic rocker has a shortened glide surface on consolidated snow- such that the ski will still feel balanced in terms of weight at BP- BUT, it does not feel balanced when XC skiing on consolidated snow...

With nordic rocker, the center of the running surface will be somewhere between your toes and your heel.

When I lift up the ski, it is at the balance point. Balanced.

When I glide on my ski, my weight is centered somewhere between the balls of my feet and my heels, usually more on my heels than on the front of my feet. How is having the center of the running surface closer to the center of my weight unbalanced?

Wouldn't it be more balanced to have the center of the running surface and the center of my own weight be closer together?

What am I missing?

[fisheater]

Yeah...
The Nordic Rocker thingy does make things weird from a XC perspective- especially on consolidated snow...

The XC performance related to the mounting point of a non-rockered Nordic touring is very straightforward.

But- a ski with Nordic rocker has a shortened glide surface on consolidated snow- such that the ski will still feel balanced in terms of weight at BP- BUT, it does not feel balanced when XC skiing on consolidated snow...

With nordic rocker, the center of the running surface will be somewhere between your toes and your heel.

When I lift up the ski, it is at the balance point. Balanced.

When I glide on my ski, my weight is centered somewhere between the balls of my feet and my heels, usually more on my heels than on the front of my feet. How is having the center of the running surface closer to the center of my weight unbalanced?

Wouldn't it be more balanced to have the center of the running surface and the center of my own weight be closer together?

What am I missing?

Instead of answering I will muddy the waters further. When I have good grip (and usually glide as well) I actually launch my back foot off the ball of foot. When I am slipping a bit the launch is off a centered and flat back foot. Since I try to keep my knees flexed, I glide on my front ski, knee flexed over the center of my ski. That would be for my Gamme or Falketind, or USGI. While I have experienced the speed of riding the heel on my glide ski, in my terrain I believe I ski more efficiently overall by riding the center or my glide ski in a flexed ankle/knee "shins to the boot" position. I find that I'm in a better position for the next kick, or turn, or both.

[riel]

Instead of answering I will muddy the waters further. When I have good grip (and usually glide as well) I actually launch my back foot off the ball of foot. When I am slipping a bit the launch is off a centered and flat back foot. Since I try to keep my knees flexed, I glide on my front ski, knee flexed over the center of my ski. That would be for my Gamme or Falketind, or USGI. While I have experienced the speed of riding the heel on my glide ski, in my terrain I believe I ski more efficiently overall by riding the center or my glide ski in a flexed ankle/knee "shins to the boot" position. I find that I'm in a better position for the next kick, or turn, or both.

I'm not sure that muddies the water, or agrees with what I wrote

If you keep your weight centered between your heel and your toes, having the center of the running surface of the ski be somewhere between your heel and your toes (instead of at your bar/pin line) seems like it could be a good thing...

[fisheater]

Instead of answering I will muddy the waters further. When I have good grip (and usually glide as well) I actually launch my back foot off the ball of foot. When I am slipping a bit the launch is off a centered and flat back foot. Since I try to keep my knees flexed, I glide on my front ski, knee flexed over the center of my ski. That would be for my Gamme or Falketind, or USGI. While I have experienced the speed of riding the heel on my glide ski, in my terrain I believe I ski more efficiently overall by riding the center or my glide ski in a flexed ankle/knee "shins to the boot" position. I find that I'm in a better position for the next kick, or turn, or both.

I'm not sure that muddies the water, or agrees with what I wrote

If you keep your weight centered between your heel and your toes, having the center of the running surface of the ski be somewhere between your heel and your toes (instead of at your bar/pin line) seems like it could be a good thing...

I see more of where your coming from. It is more of a correct binding mounting question. I know when I mounted my Gamme, I made no consideration for center of running surface. I mounted at balance point which was in the general vicinity of chord center. The Gamme does have Nordic rocker, but I don’t believe making adjustments for that NR would be a good idea. I believe that ski was engineered to be skied pins or bar on balance point.

Now when I mounted my Tindan 86, there was deliberation in regards to CRS. As really the same thing for my Falketind 62. However the FT was easy, BP and CC matched, and that put the BoF right where it belonged in relation to side cut.

I understand exactly where you’re coming from, but for me, I’m still at, “it depends”. Sometimes I think it would be easier to just go to the Shamen’s Smoke Teepee

[riel]

I just got my Gamme skis, in 210cm, and decided I would make a few measurements before mounting bindings.

I found some interesting things. The balance point is exactly in the middle of the ski, with about 41" worth of ski in front of and behind the balance point. This is only 1" off from my old Sondre/Amundsen skis, which have the balance point 40" from the tail and 42" from the tip. However, from past experience I know the ski turns like the binding is mounted much further forward.

Lets take some more measurements to find out what's going on. The answer quickly becomes pretty interesting. The center of the running surface with the skis uncompressed is around the same spot as the center of the sidecut, about 3" back from the balance point.

With the skis squished together with one hand, the nordic rocker visibly engages (at a very low height), and the center of the running surface shifts back another 6", placing it a full 9" behind the balance point!

That means in harder packed snow, where the rockered part of the ski isn't really touching the snow, the center of the running surface will be closer to the heel than to the toes of most people's feet, giving the skier plenty of leverage to turn that ski around.

Meanwhile, on softer snow the rockered part of the ski is touching the snow, and a little bit of angulation will engage the rocker, and help the ski turn.

When the snow is somewhere in-between soft and hard, the rocker might accomplish something interesting. For every 2" the rocker engages, the center of the running surface moves 1" forward. The fact that the rocker is so low means a lot of the rocker should be able to engage even when there is only a thin layer of soft snow on top of the base.

I'll have to start really skiing them to get a feel for how much of the above speculation matches what the ski does in practice...

[riel]

OK, I have only taken my Gamme skis out three times so far, and on pretty hard compacted snow on a local farm field that gets groomed. I have noticed that the Gamme skis go a lot faster than my Sondres, E99 and E89 class skis, or any other ski I have, for that matter.

Strava says the first time I took these skis out, I set my fastest and second-fastest times around one of the farm fields. The second time I took them out, I blew that second-fastest time out of the water, setting new 2nd and 3rd place records for myself.

Is it because of the relatively light weight? Is it the camber? Is it the stiff flex? Is it because he's looking at me, encouraging and/or judging me? You be the judge!