Newbie wax and snow question

[lilcliffy]

That really doesn’t look like it was sticking badly.

I second this.
But- how did it feel? Was it all stick and no glide? Or were you sliding all over the place- despite the snow sticking underfoot? What do you have for a base on the shovel/tail?

I would also expect that snow to come clean with a slide of the ski.

Yes- called "grip" wax for a reason!

Remedies include corking, nylon brushing, and maybe a light scraping, or a quick wipe of polar over the top.

It is still unclear to me whether a remedy is required...But yes- if the snow is "globbing" and not releasing/gliding- then you need a harder kick wax underfoot.

As for the ski bowing a bit, I would think that is a function of where your weight comes in on Asnes’ ratings. The ski is said to be supportive, but maybe the powder was just super light? There is a reason Finnish forest skis are 270 cm long

Is the Nansen actually bowing in this snow- or is it just sinking?

[lilcliffy]

If you easily brushed the snow off, typically the snow would self clean on the glide.

Yes- you want your kick wax to grip and glide- and with fresh soft snow, it is going to stick to the snow on the kick and then release on the glide- if it does not release it is too soft.

That being said said I use my synthetic cork a lot more. It took me a long time to realize that usually the synthetic cork is best for my uses.

In my limited experience, a synthetic "cork" seems to work better when there is moisture involved- I use a synthetic cork on a tur and a natural cork with dry bases.

It doesn’t seem to generate as much heat to spread the wax. So I believe I get better grip, with a thinner coat of wax.

There is an interesting truth here-
The traditional wisdom is-
"if you are slipping"-
1) add another layer if the same kick wax
2) extend the wax forwards
3) switch to a softer kick wax

In reality- # 2 will always increase grip
#1 is just a "measure twice, cut once" approach to making sure that the harder wax is not enough- a double-check that the harder wax is not enough.
(i.e. THE most important principle in grip waxing for Nordic touring is avoiding a softer wax if you can get away with it!)

The notion that a thicker layer of wax offers more grip- doesn't really hold up...
BUT- that being said- I ALWAYS add another layer before I extend it- and I ALWAYS extend it forwards before I consider a softer wax.

As for the bow, we all experiment with skis a bit. We learn and try different things. That Lake Superior powder can be pretty light. I’m sure Nansen will serve you well most of the time

Man- I am confused about the Nansen "bowing"- I have a 205 Nansen- and yes, I can pressure it into an arc at downhill speeds- but it is rock-solid stable and does not bow when XC skiing and climbing...

[lilcliffy]

@lilcliffy might have used something like the Ingstad for that snow — maybe he’ll chime in?

Yes- these are the touring conditions I dream about and cause both my Combat NATo and Ingstad BC to vibrate, paw at the ground and chomp at the bit in the barn!!!

BUT- I would certainly not hesitate to take any longish narrow touring ski into that snow- as long as it has a stable flex and is prepped for that snow!
(i.e. although my 210 Combat NATO and 205 Ingstad are better in that kind of snow- my 210 Gamme, 208 Amundsen, and 205 Nansen are more than acceptable- my 205 Eon, 195 Epoch, 205 E109, and 210 E99 are NOT acceptable in those conditions).

[lilcliffy]

The drag wasn't that bad. As Bob said, the snow stick didn't seem that bad, just being new it looked bad to me but the glide was ok. Not superb but ok.

I think you have a grip problem- not a glide problem.

[John Dee]

A bit less wax, a light swipe and cork of polar, a few more miles, a bit warmer and it would work.

Do you mean that the polar wax will mix with and harden up the green wax?

[mca80]

But- how did it feel? Was it all stick and no glide? Or were you sliding all over the place- despite the snow sticking underfoot?

I would also expect that snow to come clean with a slide of the ski.

Yes- called "grip" wax for a reason!

Remedies include corking, nylon brushing, and maybe a light scraping, or a quick wipe of polar over the top.

It is still unclear to me whether a remedy is required...But yes- if the snow is "globbing" and not releasing/gliding- then you need a harder kick wax underfoot.

As for the ski bowing a bit, I would think that is a function of where your weight comes in on Asnes’ ratings. The ski is said to be supportive, but maybe the powder was just super light? There is a reason Finnish forest skis are 270 cm long

Is the Nansen actually bowing in this snow- or is it just sinking?

No sliding at all. Good grip. Fairly good, but not perfect, glide.

Maybe I will check tomorrow and see if the snow sticks mid trek. I only looked at the base when I finished. The other day when it was a few degrees warmer I lifted ski midway through and found I had similar layer of snow on pocket, using same amount of green. So it wasn't falling away during the glide, I presume.

Tomorrow I will go out in colder temps, so I should scrape off whats there and just put polar on? And bring green just in case? Should be 3-8F while I am out about 9 or 10 for a couple hours after a low of -3F about 7am.

I think I was just sinking. But I am so new to this I am still getting a feel. It seemed like the mid section was dropping like a rock but I don't have proper feel yet for what tip and tail were doing.

Also, tip and tail have glide and pocket binder and polar, then green. Since my terrain is very gentle I worried about sacrificing glide by using polar over the whole thing to no real benefit since any climbs are quite short or gentle.

And I am 139 in the buff first thing in the morning. Just weighed myself after dinner and many margaritas wearing long underwear and slippers and clocked 145.

[Stephen]

I’ll let @lilcliffy answer that one…
Well, here I go anyway…

I would expect two things could happen, depending…
1. The two would mix and be a hybrid;
2. The polar could be a cover.

If I wanted a small change, I would cork enough to make sure they mixed. If I wanted a bigger change, I would try for less corking and just try to get an even layer on top of the harder wax.

BUT, if one was confident that the real answer was a harder wax, the real answer might be to scrape and reapply the harder wax.
For me, it would depend on:
How bad the problem is, for how far and for how long do I need the new wax to work (short time / fast solution, longer time distance / more thorough solution).

I would vet all that with @lilcliffy !

[Stephen]

@mca80, the other thing to consider is that wax is rated for SNOW temp, not AIR temp.
If it was really cold overnight, and no solar to warm snow, and with snow that deep to insulate from earth, the snow could easily be colder than air temp.

[mca80]

Yes- these are the touring conditions I dream about and cause both my Combat NATo and Ingstad BC to vibrate, paw at the ground and chomp at the bit in the barn!!!

BUT- I would certainly not hesitate to take any longish narrow touring ski into that snow- as long as it has a stable flex and is prepped for that snow!
(i.e. although my 210 Combat NATO and 205 Ingstad are better in that kind of snow-

How do those two at that length do for you going downhill in powder? I am thinking about trying many trips next year to a downhill area--when the lifts are closed midweek--with some vertical for my area (700' is good here). It would be nice if I could get one other ski for both that and also touring gentle forest terrain in deep cold powder if out hunting wabbits (or late season grouse if it's reasonably cold). Would a Breidablikk work? From what I understand it is much like nato or old ingstad. And a metal edge isn't necessary for touring deep powder right? Plus would ease my mind with the dog around. However, I always went downhill at resorts with a short ski.

[mca80]

@mca80, the other thing to consider is that wax is rated for SNOW temp, not AIR temp.
If it was really cold overnight, and no solar to warm snow, and with snow that deep to insulate from earth, the snow could easily be colder than air temp.

That's what confuses me about this. It was 12F all morning then 8F when I finally went out. So snow temp should have been closer to 12 than 8 which would suggest green.

Tomorrow will be -3F in the morning and maybe +4 or so when I go out so I think I will scrape them now and apply just polar. Does it matter if one waxes in advance or should I wait till morning?