How Do I Turn?

[fgd135]

<>I still say grab the local tele nerd at the hill and go ski with them for a few runs or better...

Excellent, excellent advice! Another great learning tool is to analyze skiers coming down a run while you're riding up the lift; pick apart their styles, or lack of, and try to emulate what you see as good skills and techiques.

[Stephen]

I learned to XC ski in the early 70s.
Completely self-taught, for better AND worse.
I don’t even remember how I was exposed to the concept of the Telemark turn, but I was.
But all I got was just the idea: One foot in front of the other (and opposite to Alpine) and somehow figure out how to make them turn.
I know I turned some, but it must have been pretty rudimentary.

One “bad” habit I taught myself was to put most of my weight on my front foot.
It seemed to be easier to get the front ski to turn that way (and with 220s, it probably was).

It wasn’t until I found Telemark Talk, and was getting back into XC last year that I became aware of back foot weight.
I started to pay more attention to all that, and there was a day last winter where the snow seemed a little challenging, a little heavy and harder to turn in. I was on the 205 Ingstad.
Randomly, I put more weight on my back foot in the turn, maybe 60%.
This allowed the front ski to be freer, and easier to rotate into the turn.
I have never felt like my skis are like a rudder, since they are generally under my body, but with the front ski less weighted, and out in front, it felt like a front rudder.
That was a real eye-opener (I’m not suggesting that is the best or only way to turn).

I like watching the videos and visualizing my body as the skier’s. What the forces are, the positions, the movements.

I think the best way is to try and find as ideal conditions as possible.
A gentle slope that feels safe.
A firm base (for predictability) with just enough soft snow to hold an edge.
Go out and just try a lot of different things.
Be relaxed and flexible (really, as much as possible — being tense doesn’t work).
Be confident — being tentative usually doesn’t work — commit and be willing to fall. Don’t give up and think you’re going to fall, just be willing to fall. Learn how to fall gracefully, so you don’t hurt yourself.
Be patient.
Just keep trying different ideas and see what clicks.

Try and match up the advice with what you’re doing (don’t want to learn bad habits if you can help it).
See if you can get someone to film / video you so you can see what you ACTUALLY look like, vs what you THINK you look like.
What you look like isn’t the important thing, what’s important is body dynamics. Is your body supporting the turn?

It’s a progression, it takes time: balance, timing, confidence, conditions, equipment, muscle memory, …

Blah, blah, blah…
Hope some of that helps.

[Montana St Alum]

I think my first time engaging in a turn that was at least close to a telemark stance was in the Crazy Mountains, north of Livingston Montana. We were on a 5-day backcountry adventure in late November 1970. We'd driven in on back roads to get into the mountains. I'm not even sure where we went in, but I was on an old pair of wood alpine skis and Silvretta bindings with Norwegian welt hiking boots.

I remember that the turns seemed pretty natural, even with big packs on, a combo of snowplow, stem christies, parallel and telemark. Whatever was needed. In fact, the telemark just seemed to happen.

It snowed at least a foot almost every night. When we got to the car, it was hopelessly buried, and the road was done for the season. My friend went back in March or April and drove it home. I think we skied out to Big Timber, called another guy for a ride and headed back to Bozeman.

Anyway, it was great, but this reminded me that the stance just seemed to happen, without thinking about it.

[lowangle al]

If you don't have a stable telemark stance you're not going to have a stable turn. Find an easy slope where you don't have to control your speed, open up your stance and work on changing your lead ski without turning. You won't become stable until you get both skis weighted pretty even, and you won't get your skis weighted equal until you open up your stance(so you don't tip over at slow speed) and tighten it up fore and aft to get your butt over your rear foot.

Urmas has a video showing this drill but it is not as easy as it looks. It's harder to go straight and switch leads then it is to do it in a turn because you don't have momentum to keep you upright. But I think if you spend enough time on this drill and you can find that stable stance everything will come much easier.

[bauerb]

I wrote a response to turning on light gear yesterday, I guess I never hit submit. I was trying to respond to the OP who wanted to turn light gear without doing tele turns. Nordic racers take higher speed turns in one of 2 ways: tiny steps to repoint tips, or power-slide. both are used on groomed trails. elite skimo racers are often expert alpine skiers but if you watch their descents in skimo race videos they look like competent beginners "survival skiing". plenty of advice given already on learning tele, and I agree with the beginner approach of starting on a smooth bunny hill and alternating leading feet without turning at first. if you can't balance going straight, you cannot balance in turns.

btw, I learned to tele on 210cm nordic race skis. and to do that, its finesse, not power.

[Krakus]

I don't know if those of you writing advice on how to learn tele are addressing me? If so, I just want to clarify my point: I'm quite happy with my tele turns, but for me they are just ones of many turning techniques that can be done on free heel gear. And I don't find them particularly useful in certain conditions, that's why I want to learn something more.
Just a notice, Parker's book ist entitled "Free Heel Skiing: Telemark and PARALLEL techniques, etc"

[Montana St Alum]

I don't know if those of you writing advice on how to lern tele are addressing me? If so, I just want to clarify my point: I'm quite happy with my tele turns, but for me they are just ones of many turning techniques that can be done on free heel gear. And I don't find them particularly useful in certain conditions, that's why I want to learn something more.
Just a notice, Parker's book ist entitled "Free Heel Skiing: Telemark and PARALLEL techniques, etc"

I don't understand what appears to be your original question:
"Well, if that topic could drift in a more technical way: I always had troubles with two turns described in Barnett's "Cross Country Downhill", namely open turn and compression turn (aka Austrian power turn). Especially the latter, I never was able to reproduce it according to text description. Could anyone help?"

I don't have his book and have no idea what those two turns (open turn and compression turn) are. If I did, I'd try to put in my two cents. I tried a search for the terms but came up blank. Can you describe them or what you're trying to achieve? fgd135 may have answered you in a follow up post and in the previous post bauerb may have addressed it as well.

The thread was originated by Fourthcoast and people may be responding to him. Also, others have asked questions, so comments may be targeting those questions.

[Lo-Fi]

This topic, and this video(from the “Getting Stoked” thread) and comments, got me thinking…

Evolution of our sport is great... but our heritage is awesome, too, for stokes sake.

I don't know why but those old school videos with a lot of jump turns get me stoked more than a modern Powder Whore video.

Well I could write a thousand words, but the skiing in that movie sums it up. That’s how it’s done boys!

To say they're "light on their feet" is the best compliment that comes to mind… Don't see this technique used much with burly equipment... maybe too heavy, maybe too much rocker on the new sticks, or maybe just unnecessary due to stiffer gear?

Also...if a good turn is hard to find, one would never know based on this video alone.

The bottom line is that modern skis turn a lot easier with a lot less input from the skier and that input would be heavy weighting and unweighting.

I really liked jump turns but did less of them as my gear got heavier. As soon as I scaled down to T4s with lightweight BC skis the jump turns came back.

When I was first learning to tele in the late 80s, on Snowpine boots, Super Telemark bindings and 207cm Karhu Supremes, those jump turns were the ultimate goal. Then, as gear got heavier and more powerful, not so much.

Now, sometimes back on relatively light equipment, like Alaska BCs and Karhu Guides/Annums, I find all those years of practice(all those years ago) allow the odd micro step/jump to make an appearance when needed:
.

,

[Tom M]

I like watching the videos and visualizing my body as the skier’s. What the forces are, the positions, the movements.

I think the best way is to try and find as ideal conditions as possible.
A gentle slope that feels safe.
A firm base (for predictability) with just enough soft snow to hold an edge.
Go out and just try a lot of different things.
Be relaxed and flexible (really, as much as possible — being tense doesn’t work).
Be confident — being tentative usually doesn’t work — commit and be willing to fall. Don’t give up and think you’re going to fall, just be willing to fall. Learn how to fall gracefully, so you don’t hurt yourself.
Be patient.
Just keep trying different ideas and see what clicks.

From the watch and learn archive. Leather boots, NNNBC, heavy snow, and 70's muscle memory.

[bauerb]

I've been tele skiing for 35 years and I am never totally happy with my tele turns. in other words, I am always working on something. carving high speed GS turns, skiing bumps better, optimizing energy output, skiing deep powder remains elusive because I'm never in exactly the right place at the right time.