S-bound 98? Falketind62? Rab 68? Other Skis?

[Stephen]

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will supply the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

I think people may be trying to suggest the best ski for the iced up 30* slopes @Lighturn mentions.
What he is asking is: Out of all the skis that are good for the touring he will NORMALLY do, which are the one(s) that would best handle the iced up 30* slopes he sometimes encounters.

I have no idea what that ski is. None will be great, since they will be better suited for more mellow conditions.
Personally, I think a narrower ski may be better. It will be easier to edge, and will be EFFECTIVELY more torsionally stiff (for edge hold), since, being narrower, there is less leverage in the ski’s width to make it twist.
So, @jyw5’s suugestion of the Otto, might be good?
I’m speaking more theoretically, than from firsthand experience, but my experience matchs what I said.
On an icy 30* slope, I would MUCH rather be on a narrower, stiffer, ski, than a wider, more “playful” ski.
And, I might be doing kick turns on the way down!

[jyw5]

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will supply the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

I think people may be trying to suggest the best ski for the iced up 30* slopes @Lighturn mentions.
What he is asking is: Out of all the skis that are good for the touring he will NORMALLY do, which are the one(s) that would best handle the iced up 30* slopes he sometimes encounters.

I have no idea what that ski is. None will be great, since they will be better suited for more mellow conditions.
Personally, I think a narrower ski may be better. It will be easier to edge, and will be EFFECTIVELY more torsionally stiff (for edge hold), since, being narrower, there is less leverage in the ski’s width to make it twist.
So, @jyw5’s suugestion of the Otto, might be good?
I’m speaking more theoretically, than from firsthand experience, but my experience matchs what I said.
On an icy 30* slope, I would MUCH rather be on a narrower, stiffer, ski, than a wider, more “playful” ski.
And, I might be doing kick turns on the way down!

Stephen,

you are exactly right. narrower skis are better. The Nansen or Otto Sverdup are 54mm underfoot which is a good width for better edging.

I do alot of kick turns on steep slopes. sometimes, I will simply slide down with skis perpendicular to the fall line until i get to a spot with better conditions.

The Nansen has proven that icy steeps are possible with NNN-BC but a 5cm shorter than recommended length would work better. A 5cm shorter Sverdrup so far has allowed greater control on hard packed snow (noticeably better than the Skog/Nansen). I won't really know for certain until I have put more time on them.

Please, to be clear, I am not recommending 5cm shorter length for anyone. This is what has worked for ME. I have a quiver of skis at proper length and have several shorter skis for specific purposes and is working for ME for very specific conditions and for the type of skiing that I am doing. Just as I have encountered people who have thrown together some Frankenbinding/boot/ski combos that have worked very for them.

I also take it that anyone attempting to use the ski setup this way is not trying to intentionally ski 30 degree icy slopes but rather these conditions just happen on a ski tour.

I did a 4 day traverse last yr where the last day was boilerplate refrozen spring crust and very steep in many areas. I had full skins on my Fischer S Bound 125 (S125) with mountaineering boots. It was barely skiiable and there were alot of exposed sections where it was mostly sidehilling. Thankfully, the metal edges held and the skins didn't fail. The setup was perfect however for the glacier light powder encountered on the other days.

You will need wider skis with full metal edges and full skins if you are carrying alot of weight coming down steep icy slopes. If you arent skiing with a large pack, narrow skis will work just fine. Shorter length skis also make kick turns easier for me. I find that any length more than 175cm is very long for me to do good turns on steep slopes (thanks to short legs).

[Lighturn]

Thanks again to all! We are getting closer.

II will check out the skis listed! They seem long to me

@ jyw5:

How did you get your montaineering boot fixed on that Sbound 112?

Kickturns @ 175 cm Skis how tall are you?

Thats for granted:

I also take it that anyone attempting to use the ski setup this way is not trying to intentionally ski 30 degree icy slopes but rather these conditions just happen on a ski tour.

You will need wider skis with full metal edges and full skins if you are carrying alot of weight coming down steep icy slopes. If you arent skiing with a large pack, narrow skis will work just fine. Shorter length skis also make kick turns easier for me.

I have got alot of (negative) experience on skinny XC Skis with double camber and NO steel edges

cheers

Lighturn

[Lighturn]

I still don’t ski in your boots, and the is still a bunch of 70’s mm underfoot alpine touring skis that may be best for you. Good luck

Good Idea! Never thought of that since I did not know these existed! For AT 80 mm underfoot are ususally already considered "skinny".

Which skies exactly do you have in mind?

Regards

Lighturn

[Telerock]

Having tele skied for years on-piste on Vermont icy 30-degree slopes. I suggest a ski with a width at the center that is wider than your boot. Most of my falls on pay-for-ski ice were due to “booting out”; when I carved a turn and the angle of the ski against the ice reached the point where the boot hit the ice, thereby knocking the ski loose from its edge on the ice.
This can be reduced, but not eliminated, by adding “ lifts” under the binding. A friend used to cut up teflon kitchen cutting boards to fit between the binding and skis.
Also, steel edges are a must-have.

[lilcliffy]

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will provide the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

Well- you know what's funny?

I think the ski you should consider is a "short" Nansen (by "short", I mean sized for downhill skiing as opposed to XC skiing)

Although I haven't tested it yet- the Nansen I just bought has surprised me the most...
Not that it should really- it is just so old-school:
- traditional, broad, raised stiff tip
- no rocker
- full-length, low-profile Nordic camber
- moderately-stiff, full-length supportive flex
- moderate sidecut
- narrow waist

Wow- does the Nansen ever have a smooth stable flex, and a long effective edge!

The Nansen is totally different from the Sverdrup and the Ingstad...

I keep flexing and imagining these skis on snow-

I must say that this ski screams effective carving edge to me...

For the boots and the condition you describe- I would seriously consider the Nansen over any of the skis in the OP...

The Sverdrup has a much shorter effective edge, but it also has much more camber and stiffness underfoot...(we shall see how this complex ski works out!)

I am seriously considering a short Nansen for ultralight downhill skiing...

The mounting point of the Nansen at balance point is also very different than the other skis...

I wonder what a forward mounting point would do for the downhill performance of the Nansen...

BTW- do we know for sure that the Skog is not a softer ski, but identical to the Nansen?
(A shorter Nansen/Skog would also double as a touring ski for my daughter...)
...........

Anyway- regardless of my musings above- I don't know which of the "hybrid" XCD skis Fischer 98/112; Asnes FT/Rabb; Madshus 68/78 would be best on steep icy slopes with a soft Nordic touring boot-

I can say with confidence that it definitely isn't:
- Karhu/Madshus Epoch(68), Annum (78)- they are horrible on ice (I cannot speak for the current models)
- 1st/2nd gen FT62- though a bit better than the Epoch/Annnum- they are still terrible on ice

But, yes- talking specifically of the boots you intend to use- I think less than 70mm underfoot with a long, stable effective edge...

[lilcliffy]

So either Nansen or Sverdrup. and 5cm shorter

Yes- my mind is here for steep descents on icy snow with XC boots...
Will be VERY keen to read your comparisons between the two!

Joe- couple of questions about the Cecile Skog you have-

- mounted at balance point with NNNBC?
- how would you describe the flex and camber of your Skog?

Gareth

[lilcliffy]

I think people may be trying to suggest the best ski for the iced up 30* slopes @Lighturn mentions.
What he is asking is: Out of all the skis that are good for the touring he will NORMALLY do, which are the one(s) that would best handle the iced up 30* slopes he sometimes encounters.

Ok- so what is the context of the "normal " touring?
Sorry if I missed those details-

@Lighturn-
What is the context of your typical touring- what ski(s) are you currently using- and why are they not ideal?

[lilcliffy]

I have got alot of (negative) experience on skinny XC Skis with double camber and NO steel edges

The Sverdrup ski has very significant camber and stiffness underfoot- certainly as much as an E99 Xtralite (i.e. more than the E109/Ingstad/Nansen).

[lilcliffy]

Having tele skied for years on-piste on Vermont icy 30-degree slopes. I suggest a ski with a width at the center that is wider than your boot. Most of my falls on pay-for-ski ice were due to “booting out”; when I carved a turn and the angle of the ski against the ice reached the point where the boot hit the ice, thereby knocking the ski loose from its edge on the ice.
This can be reduced, but not eliminated, by adding “ lifts” under the binding. A friend used to cut up teflon kitchen cutting boards to fit between the binding and skis.
Also, steel edges are a must-have.

Hmmm- the only issue with going wide on ice and hardpack is that you then need a tall stiff-rigid downhill boot to hold it on edge.

A riser will solve any issue with booting-out when downhill skiing/carving on a narrow ski- it will also give you more leverage over the ski edge.