NNN-BC Red Flexors

[John_XCD]

This topic has come up a few times in the past. I purchased a few of these "hard" red flexors out of curiosity. They seem potentially fun on the descents (encourage the ball of foot to remain engaged on the trailing ski) but less than ideal on the climbs (especially if breaking trail in deeper snow).

Do folks ski with these all day or switch out the flexor while skiing (a la XPLORE)? I can imagine occasionally wanting to do a long climb with no flexor (NNNBC "free pivot mode") and then pop in the red for the descent. Does the binding get packed full of snow? If so any ideas to solve this-- perhaps modify black flexors so they are even lower resistance for climbing? The flexors are easy enough to switch out in the garage but perhaps not so in the field? Or maybe climbing with the red isn't too bad on consolidated snow?

Then again, skiing up and down without stopping to fiddle with equipment is one of the joys of XCD...

[Woodserson]

Yeah red flexors!

When I had my Ingstad's set up for NNN-BC I used the reds and they worked really nice for the turns and they were snappy on the climbs. I don't think I'd do expedition style polar sledging with them, but as the kick is limited climbing a hill it didn't matter much. That being said, this was consolidated snow use only, I did not use them in fresh deep snow for climbing (but downhill yes, much fun), so no experience there. But otherwise, snappy kick up, nice control down.

The free-pivot climb idea is an interesting one, the reds can be a bit stiff so if you suffer from cold slow hands you may want to leave them in. Choose your suffering.

[エイダン.シダル]

Interesting. They're for Nordic tour skating, aren't they? At least that's why I got a pair to put in the NNN BC bindings on mine. That was spring, so I haven't skated them yet. Found them here.

https://www.akers-ski.com/product/32NF.html

[athabascae]

Interesting. They're for Nordic tour skating, aren't they? At least that's why I got a pair to put in the NNN BC bindings on mine. That was spring, so I haven't skated them yet. Found them here.

https://www.akers-ski.com/product/32NF.html

Yes, I have stiff red flexors in magnums on my lundhag nordic skates (which I hope to use in the next 10 days or so when the marshes are frozen enough -- wahoo!)

Sorry to the OP. I've yet to put them on my ski bindings.

[John_XCD]

Following up my own question --

Skinned up yesterday with black flexors, switched to red at the top which I used for a few laps of a pitch at the top (climbing back up a mellow cat track) and the ski back down.

The exchange - Super easy at temps near freezing. The red rubber seems like it get might get too stiff in very cold temps. Would think of keeping these in a pocket closer to the body.

The climb - No big issue with the red flexors on a packed gentle grade (just using scales). Would not want them in if I'm climbing steeps with full skins or breaking trail while climbing.

The descent - Noticeable improvement. Skied some of the more challenging descents I have attempted on NNNBC (~30 degrees, sort of skied out crud of heavy powder but still soft). The technique, limitations etc of NNNBC obviously remain but the increased resistance helps keeps BOF on the ski in uneven terrain.

Overall a really cheap "power up" for the unusual people that like to telemark on NNNBC. No reason not to try these!

I was hesitant to try climbing without a flexor (seems like binding will pack with snow and then probably can't put one in) but I might just trim down a pair of black flexors to allow more of a free pivot for climbing.

[lilcliffy]

[tkarhu]

Bringing back an old thread… rather than the Physics Debate thread that is related, too It can be of interest for those who ski XCD on stiff NNN-BC boots.

Locking the rails with BOF is the secret of NNN-BC, which not a lot of people seem to understand...
]…]
this is also the reason why you need a pretty good technique to ride NNN-BC downhill
[…]
if NNN-BC was not designed as a downhill bindings, there wouldn't be any rails on them...
http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 483#p30405

A standard flexor does not keep up with a stiff boot (Alfa Guard, Alaska BC, Crispi Svartisen), when its sole does not give in easily at ball of foot. I tested this today.

With a black flexor, the boot mostly pivots around the NNN-BC bar, when you lift a heel. By contrast, with a red flexor, the bootsole bends, too, because flexor and sole give in more similarly.

A red flexor helps to keep your ball of foot against ground. The red flexor slows down your heel rise, when it would go too far too fast. With a black flexor, when you notice that rear leg weight is on your toetips already, it takes some time and attention to bring weight back down to the ball of foot. So the red flexor probably helps with quick tele turns.

I think there might be another benefit, too… My Guard boots create blisters at heels, and I think that is because they have so stiff soles. I can feel pressure at the heel blister spot, when the heel is highest. Maybe less heel rise mean less pressure… and less blisters, too.

The images show how much difference there is in heel rise. The difference is not night and day. I pull the shoes lightly from their strings in the photos.

I am planning to ski both up and down with the red flexors, when skiing XCD. If I go on a long flat tour, there might be need for the black flexors (and Compeeds!). At slow speeds, like with a pulk, I believe the flexors do not make a difference, when you are mostly walking.

[JohnSKepler]

They seem analogous to the stiff black flexors for the Xplore binding. I haven't used them a lot but am going to start. For Tele skiing they do a great job of keeping your forefoot planted providing significantly better control. At least that's my experience!

[Johnny]

A standard flexor does not keep up with a stiff boot (Alfa Guard, Alaska BC, Crispi Svartisen)

You are right. Good skiing technique, (and good technique only) keeps your BOF against the ski. Nothing else.
Flexors, cables, springs and all that stuff are superfluous.

[Stephen]

A standard flexor does not keep up with a stiff boot (Alfa Guard, Alaska BC, Crispi Svartisen)

You are right. Good skiing technique, (and good technique only) keeps your BOF against the ski. Nothing else.
Flexors, cables, springs and all that stuff are superfluous.

I don’t want to ride @Johnny’s coattails, but that is what I was thinking before I got to his comment.

I think the hard flexor, or a cable help put pressure on the front of the ski (god forbid, not the tip!), but don’t help keep the BOF planted on the ski.

I do think an active binding, like Meidjo, working against a stiff boot, like TX Pro, does have enough resistance to heel lift that it makes the boot break, and helps keep BOF on or closer to the ski.
But rubber flexors are so much weaker than skier forces, that they are inconsequential for BOF on ski.

Another post asked if stiffer flexors would keep one from falling forward.
Just test that at home. Try leaning against a hard flexor and see how little support that actually provides in a leaning forward situation.

But skiers on NTN, or the like can lean way over the front of the skis without falling forward.