How to tele: 3-pin only

[WorldMogul]

Thanks for that info!

Regarding the Scarpa T4s...I skied on Scarpa Tx Pro boots on NTN bindings this past winter, and I did not enjoy those boots because I also got toe pinch when getting into the low stance. Do you/ anyone know how the T4s flex compared to the Tx Pros in a low stance? Do you ever get toe pinch with the T4s in a low stance?

Thanks!!

[oggopoggo]

Your cable and boot combination is perfect for moguls but the 3 pin has a couple quirks. There is a lag in pivoting movements even with the R Super Telemark. You could go down one length in your ski or go narrower. Super Stinx is 8mm less so much quicker edge to edge and you can ski them a little more under you.
The other thing is that pins don't impose anything on the flex of the boot, telebulldogs being an excellent exception. Leathers flex easily at the ball of foot once broken in, plastics change very little giving the tiptoe feeling without a cable. You could look for Merrell Super Comps for leather boots or close your stance slightly to get your trailing weight down for plastic boots. You might even put a higher cuff (or stiffer liner) in a flexy pair of plastic touring boots.

[fisheater]

As Oggopoggo states, a cable assists in flexing the bellows on a plastic boot. However the sole of the plastic boot is more torsionally stiff, or less likely to twist under force than even a relatively stiff Norwegian welted sole on a leather boot.
I’m willing to bet the Rottefella Super Telemark with the cable would be the assist you needed to flex the bellows. There are a few old school cable bindings that would also work without pins.
I personally ski in leathers without a cable. In my T-4’s I prefer a cable assist.

[WorldMogul]

I do have a pair of Super Stinx but they are 181cm vs. 174cm for the World Pistes...so not quite sure if those would be better with the 3 pin bindings. I also have a pair of Scarpa Terminator boots (with purple coloring). I recently acquired the Terminators (no ski days yet), but flexing that boot indoors (in the G3 targa bindings) seems to have a similar stiffness to the Garmont Synergy boots, and a very slight toe pinch, whereas the Garmont boots do not have any toe pinch.

Oggopoggo- your comment about my cable and boot combo being perfect for skiing moguls is interesting to me. I think so too, and that combo just happened to be what I bought on craigslist back when I started tele (5 years ago). I have tried various set ups in the intervening years and nothing comes close to being as good. I do wonder if it is just what I am used to or is there more to it? If I had to buy newer stuff or was unable to source that stuff on the used market what else might work well for moguls?

In Super Comps that are a half size too small for me, I got really bad toe pinch in the low stance. I am wondering if there are leather boots that have a reputation for not giving toe pinch in the low stance?

Thanks!!

[oggopoggo]

Boots are tricky. Black Diamonds might have more forefoot volume than the old Garmonts. Usually that makes for a roomy ankle fit though. Thermofit liners can take up the volume with some loss of response. You can also experiment by cutting off the front (or a section) of cheap foot beds and taping them in place. A few mm can make all the difference.

I have had bellows pinch from leathers (with a fibreglass toe cap) and plastics. I ended up strapping down the boots in a maximum flex position in tightly set cable bindings and leaving it for days. You have to stuff something under the bellows that won't collapse, like a bean bag. A short piece of wood can keep it in place.

[WorldMogul]

Thanks for that advice, Oggopoggo! I removed the insole of the liner for the Scarpa Terminators, and shaved away some of the rubber under the big toe on the liner. This helped reduce the toe pinch and now I only feel it if really going knee to ski!

Edits:
I just put an old leather Arkos boot (with a sock and garbanzo beans in the toes) into the low position. After a few days of this, the toe pinch was not resolved.

Now I put on a some sort of leather conditioner to hopefully make leather above the toes softer, and will experiment with putting some plastic material in there to stop the toe pinch.

[fgd135]

Like several others here, I learned to tele ski with leather boots and 3-pins on minimal sidecut 1980's tele skis. At the time, we all flatly rejected the whole idea of cable bindings. Fwiw, excellent application of leather boot/3 pin tele skills is very thoroughly discussed in Paul Parker's tome :Free-Heel Skiing: The Secrets of Telemark and Parallel Techniques - In All Conditions", published so long ago.
Although I frequently tour with 3 pins and leather boots, I rarely go up the lifts that way, preferring plastic boots and cables for the control and support...on hard packed dh slopes, control seems impossible for me anymore with just leathers and pins, even with narrower skis. Guess I'm too well adapted to plastic and have forgotten the fundamentals of leather and pins, i.e., a tight low stance, skis close together, weight centered between both skis, and steering forcefully using the balls of my feet. Tele turns with plastic are just--lazy--for fundamentals and allow sloppy turns without consequence. But man, what fun to drive and ski tighter turns at higher speeds than with Asolos and Truckers.
In the backcountry with big packs I usually ski with cables, even if in leather boots, although lots of times I use bindings with removeable cables and just use the cables if the snow is weird or there's lots of elevation drop.