The new Rottefella XPLORE OFFTRACK Binding system

[Musk Ox]

No more MT51!

[riel]

No more MT51!

I tried a pair of Wooderson's MT51 skis yesterday. I won't miss those from the lineup. They're alright, but they're not exceptional. Of course, I tried the MT51s after I skied the Gammes all morning, and pretty much every ski is bound to fall flat after using a pair of Gamme skis! About the only thing the MT51 did better than the Gammes was fit in the tracks. The 6 miles I skied on the MT51 felt like more work than the 12 miles I skied on the Gamme earlier the same day.

The Otto & Line Sverdrup skis look interesting. From the description they sound like a narrower version of the Ingstad, with less nordic rocker, resulting in better glide on hardpack.

However, what I really want (hi @Asnes1922) would be skis with a similar camber and flex as the Gammes that happen to fit in the tracks, maybe with the sidecut of the Sondre skis that were also discontinued? Might be a good opportunity to bring Sondre Nordheim back to the catalog some day, and give him the skis he really deserves

For a waxless version, that double cambered, rockered Sondre should probably have the most forgiving fishscales imaginable, with the deep fishscales all the way from the X-skin attachment point, to 25cm behind the balance point, and maybe 5-10cm of shallow fishscales in front and to the rear of that, so they are easily usable by beginners, even if it costs a little bit of glide when not in well packed tracks.

In my opinion, having waxless skis that are more difficult to use for beginners (due to needing careful placement of the ski on the trail, and careful pressuring of the ski) may not make as much sense as making the waxless skis slightly more forgiving of poor technique, and having them be truly easy to use for everybody. The fishscale pattern that was developed for the Nansen & Cecilie ski may not be long enough to really work well on the double cambered skis.

[havuja]

riel,
I agree 100% with the need of longer and stronger fishscales on double camber åsnes skis.
I have Finnmark WL 210cm, and they don't have decent grip even for flats. Yes, I know they are intented fo a heavier skier than me (80kg),and I was not expecting much, but I have other waxless skis with higher/stiffer camber, poor worn out pattern, that still grip much better. Even with 10kg backpack and super focused kick I'm loosing way too much of the force on each kick slipping backwards. I have tested them in every possible below freezing conditions, not yet above.
I'm very disappoined with my purchase, they are now just for pulling a pulk with kicker skins. Should have gone for wax, but was too excited finally to get a ski for multi-day tours that had kicker skin option for pulling a pulk, and a waxless pattern that would work for flat ice fishing tours from the camp or coming down from an evening fjell -tour, all without having to remove wax from skis before putting skins back on.

Crister @Åsn@Åsnes1922
Hello, is it true that Tindan is soon discontinued? I'm waiting for Xplore system to use it with a wider more downhill oriented ski, and Tindan is one option in my books. Nosi would be nice, but why not make it 190 or 195cm? I just can't stand plastic boots (flat feet and plenty of touring for turns) and need a ski other than finnish forest ski that would somewhat carry me in powder. At the moment we have only two feet of snow, but it is so soft that any other ski I own is impossible (really, hitting the very bottom) to get anywhere with in forested valleys. Up in the fjells snow is more variable. Do you think that Xplore system could drive a wide ski in these conditions? Probably powder, but how about variable? From my experience I would guess that if it is even a bit more supportive than a 75 cable with decent leather boot it will do the job, but could it be...?

[lilcliffy]

Just a reminder to us all that this thread is about the Xplore binding system-
We should continue our discussion about the Asnes ski line in one of the Asnes threads...
Gareth

[Åsnes1922]

Hi guys!

I see it's a lot of questions about the Rottefella Xplore concepts. I can also see that it is a lot of different perceptions.
If you have any questions you want to be clarified, I'm now allowed and available to answer your questions.

The system is now public knowledge to the sports industry, and there is a pretty widespread last-phase testing going on in Norway. A lot of shops have been allowed to test the new boots, skis, and bindings. And I must say, the feedback is overwhelming and very positive in every way.

I have tested and used this system quite a lot lately, and just sent a very comprehensive test-report to ALFA and Rottefella. I have earlier stated that I'm very positive, and with the latest changes, I can say I'm REALLY confident in this system. If it can handle a season with me, it should handle a lifetime with most skiers... Just saying.

Also, here's the 2021 Åsnes Workbook for you guys:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Sweet. Sounds like you're happy with function and durability so far. More specifically how does it perform descending ? How does it compare to 75mm for lateral control ? How wide of a ski do you think it can drive ?

Hi there!

I'm really happy with the downhill-capabilities of the Xplore system. I'm possibly most impressed with the boots from ALFA. They have a nice flex when walking, but are SOLID lateral and torsional. The work Rottefella has done with the soles, and what ALFA has accomplished with the APS Free boot is impressive.

The "Pin-tech" technology, as mentioned here on the forum, has already existed for some time at Dynafit. The rando-race community has been using variations of the Dynafit P49 for quite some time. The good news on that note is the fact that the technology is well tested and has proved to be durable. The way those skimo racers ski, you can understand the system is durable and reliable.

The pintech, the binding, and the torsional stiffness in the boot give you bombproof lateral control. It's way stiffer than a 75mm on that note. I had no problem standing in balance on the middle of the ski at all times, and you can easily ski parallel turns as well. This system will keep your foot aligned on top of the ski at all times.

As you can probably understand, this also translates to really good downhill characteristics. And with the good flex in the rubber-flexes, you get a good power transition to the front of the ski - which means you can fully utilize the edge and turn radius of the ski. All in all, it feels like real skiing - where you can use the full potential of the ski. The boots are even stiff enough in the shaft to get a decent forward flex.

I'm not sure how wide a ski it can drive, but we're testing it on the Nosi 76 ski, and that works well. I'm sure it can drive skis up to around 88ish mm waists. But I would say the system will work best on more lightweight set-ups. I see it as optimal for the Flaketind 62, Rabb 68, and Nosi 76.

[Åsnes1922]

Hi Crister @Åsnes1922
Awesome that new skis are coming! Thanks for the heads up!
Questions:

Have other boot manufacturers committed to the Xplore system?

The Sverdrup set look enticing, how would the camber and flex profile compare to the Nansen, Ingstad and Combat skis? I see that they have rocker and slightly more sidecut than the Nansen or Ingstad, but a bit narrower underfoot. I imagine that it would be very turny with this sidecut and rocker.

And what is new with the new FT62s?

Thanks
Roelant

Hi Roelant

Yes, Alpina will come up with some nice boots for AW22. I'm sure they will come up with a really nice boot configuration. So far, it looks good.

The new Sverdrup set has been in the works for some time. While the Nansen and Cecilie skis are really forgiving and easy to turn, they have had a limited XC-performance and have probably been too soft for many individuals.
It's basically a redesigned Nansen/Cecilie, with a better wax pocket, more stiffness underfoot, and a camber more like the Børge Ousland BC and Gamme 54 BC skis. On the other hand, we wanted it to be as playful (or even more) as the Nansen/Cecilie skis, so we added more sidecut, a generous Nordic Rocker (similar as in Børge and Ingstad), as well as Taper.

The changes we made, are basically something the market (and you) have been asking for. And now the time was right to introduce this new model with the added benefits. The Sverdrup with even more playful than the Nansen/Cecilie, turns easier and has way better XC-performance. You may call it a downscaled Ingstad/Falketind with more camber and flex if you like. Or at least, something along those lines.

The new Falketind 62 will get a few small updates. It will be reinforced in the binding zone, a bit stiffer underfoot, and tuned to perform even better than before. It has been the No.1 ski we have tested the Xplore concept on, so we have tuned it to perform even better downhill. And, we added a bit mor flex and a higher camber/wax pocket for better kick and glide. Other than that, there are no "major" changes.

We have done the same with the Rabb 68 and added a directional groove in the sole on the Rabb 68 too. Meaning, you'll get more touring capacity in that model as well. But, we also "beefed" it up a bit, so that it skis even better on edge and charges better. I have skied it quite a lot with a light AT-setup lately, and I actually skied some downhill and gates with it. It performs really well, even at higher speeds! Super lightweight, but skis like a carving ski and handles powder really well.

[Åsnes1922]

riel,
I agree 100% with the need of longer and stronger fishscales on double camber åsnes skis.
I have Finnmark WL 210cm, and they don't have decent grip even for flats. Yes, I know they are intented fo a heavier skier than me (80kg),and I was not expecting much, but I have other waxless skis with higher/stiffer camber, poor worn out pattern, that still grip much better. Even with 10kg backpack and super focused kick I'm loosing way too much of the force on each kick slipping backwards. I have tested them in every possible below freezing conditions, not yet above.
I'm very disappoined with my purchase, they are now just for pulling a pulk with kicker skins. Should have gone for wax, but was too excited finally to get a ski for multi-day tours that had kicker skin option for pulling a pulk, and a waxless pattern that would work for flat ice fishing tours from the camp or coming down from an evening fjell -tour, all without having to remove wax from skis before putting skins back on.

Crister @Åsn@Åsnes1922
Hello, is it true that Tindan is soon discontinued? I'm waiting for Xplore system to use it with a wider more downhill oriented ski, and Tindan is one option in my books. Nosi would be nice, but why not make it 190 or 195cm? I just can't stand plastic boots (flat feet and plenty of touring for turns) and need a ski other than finnish forest ski that would somewhat carry me in powder. At the moment we have only two feet of snow, but it is so soft that any other ski I own is impossible (really, hitting the very bottom) to get anywhere with in forested valleys. Up in the fjells snow is more variable. Do you think that Xplore system could drive a wide ski in these conditions? Probably powder, but how about variable? From my experience I would guess that if it is even a bit more supportive than a 75 cable with decent leather boot it will do the job, but could it be...?

Hi th@Åsnes1922


Yes, as of now the Tindan will be discontinued. We sold out almost every single ski this season, so we figured we would use the opportunity to develop new skis. We're working on a new touring lineup, so at the moment I'm, working on new shapes and designs. I'm sure you will be happy with the result when we finish this project.

Based on what you're writing, I believe you would be more benefited by choosing something like the Falketind 62 in 196cm with either the Xplore system or a Voile 3-pin Cable binding.

I posted another comment on how wide skis I believe the Xplore system can drive, check that out

[spopepro]

Really appreciate the insight. Two questions from me:

Have you put crampons on the Alfa boots? With no welts, I’d assume you need a universal strap setup, but then I worry about pin interference. Maybe a toe unit could be made for the pins, but with no heel welt, the only option would be a kind of backwards semi-auto design. I can’t figure it out.

Do you transition the toe bumpers? It seems like you did some serious mountain skiing, so I assume you’d want the flat insert on the way up, but probably the bumper on the way down. But it seems maybe awkward to change binding parts at the transition. Or maybe not.

Oh, and one observation. Scarpa has more or less said 75mm is dead in their eyes. Knowing rotte and scarpa have a business relationship, it seems like the xplore system is targeted for what was 3-pin (with or without cables), especially seeing how the “magic scarpa tele tech boot that has been 2 seasons away for the last 5 years” is much more likely to be a Mastrale level boot, not a super light tourer. I might imagine scarpa saying this is the system if you want a 900g boot.

[turnfarmer]

@Åsn@Åsnes1922
You have Asolo Extremes lied as a favorite boot. As it was mine back in th day, how would you compare the new Alfa boo to the old Extreme?

[Åsnes1922]

Really appreciate the insight. Two questions from me:

Have you put crampons on the Alfa boots? With no welts, I’d assume you need a universal strap setup, but then I worry about pin interference. Maybe a toe unit could be made for the pins, but with no heel welt, the only option would be a kind of backwards semi-auto design. I can’t figure it out.

Do you transition the toe bumpers? It seems like you did some serious mountain skiing, so I assume you’d want the flat insert on the way up, but probably the bumper on the way down. But it seems maybe awkward to change binding parts at the transition. Or maybe not.

Oh, and one observation. Scarpa has more or less said 75mm is dead in their eyes. Knowing rotte and scarpa have a business relationship, it seems like the xplore system is targeted for what was 3-pin (with or without cables), especially seeing how the “magic scarpa tele tech boot that has been 2 seasons away for the last 5 years” is much more likely to be a Mastrale level boot, not a super light tourer. I might imagine scarpa saying this is the system if you want a 900g boot.

Hi there!

I've not used crampons on the boots yet. I just haven't had the use for them yet. I guess I will figure that out now during spring, as the conditions turn to the more icy stuff these days. But as you say, you'll probably have to go for a universal strap setup for now. I know Rottefella and Alfa is working on a platform to use on both snowshoes, crampons and other solutions. So hopefully, they will find a solution similar to what has been made for Dynafit boots and AT boots. The way I see it, this should be a quick fix. There are lots of good options, and it should be easy to figure out.

I basically use the toe bumpers (flex) all the time. It is super easy to switch, but I liked to have some resistance even when going uphill. It takes about 4 seconds.

It's a struggle to kickturn a 205cm/196cm long ski when it gets steep, so the bumper was of good use here. With the bumper on, you can skate the skis and the tail comes up easy. It's just easier.
Also, I felt I got a better kick with the bumper on compared to the flat insert. So it was more efficient for me to ski with the bumpers on most of the time. It basically just felt like moving with a BC binding on the flats and going uphill, and I felt that I could move more efficiently.

I guess this is more of a personal preference, and the nice thing is that you can try out different solutions and figure out what's best for you. As I tested different hardnesses on the flexes, the Shore 60A worked nicely for me when kicking and gliding (it's very similar to the BC resistance) and then I preferred the stiffest bumper when going downhill (obviously). I think most people will manage fine with the standard setup which the Xpolre binding comes with, and if needed, they can upgrade to a stiffer bumper.

I honestly don't think 75mm is dead, at least not in countries with a long skiing tradition. It will for sure not die out in Norway any time soon. We have to remember that there is A LOT of 75mm boots out there. But if Scarpa decides to stop making 75mm boots, I can understand that, as there is not a huge market. I guess they will focus on the tele-tech and NTN boots in the future - but that is just me speculating (a calculated guess based on conversations with my friends in the industry).