Wisdom for newbie

[BCStu]

Hi,
First season on XC skis in 30 years. I picked up a pair of Fisher Spyder 62 off track with Voile cable bindings (but no cables) used, then found a pair of White Woods NN 75mm boots and poles.
After a while of skiing well used trails I found that searching out hills is really fun and exciting (I was avid alpine skier), and now here I am on Telemark talk asking questions.

My issue is I can't tell if I am just on a steep learning curve , or my gear is simply not up to the job?
I realize that the Fisher 62s are not ideal downhill but I find I have decent control of my left ski but not my right. the right just seems really unstable, almost like the boot is wobbling off the side at times. I keep the boots pretty tight and don't see any major deformations in the holes. The bindings look stable and tough. I can snow plow turn fine enough, but keeping my trailing ski stable with the leading ski seems like mission impossible.

So I wonder are white woods NN boot in general considered good enough for beginner telemark?
Would getting a set of cables really help feel more stable and in control?
Should I just spring for new skis and boots since I am really liking this and I have already found more hills that just might be doable?
Or it's not the gear it's me and there is always next year for new shiny stuff?
Thanks

[EvanTrem]

If you feel like you need more stability. I would bet its the boots. All those whitewoods boots are questionable Chinese made stuff. Some of the lighter ones look like they are pretty much a running shoe upper on a 75mm sole.

You could try a low plastic boot(Garmont/Scott Excursion or Scarpa T4). Also the Alico Ski March boots on Ebay are good (I ski these 90% of the time as well as some time on T4s).

You might as well pick up the heel cables for the Voile bindings. Those bindings are going to be rock solid for any XCD setup you have so it would do you well to invest in the cables. Even with the Whitewoods boots you can get the feeling for heel resistance.

Lastly, for beginners, getting the trailing foot weighted is really really hard. I think adding cables will help.

[CwmRaider]

Several things here.

First, turning telemark on BC skis is a steep learning curve, but that's part of the fun

Second, the Fischer Spider 62 are XC skis with a double camber, meaning that they provide extra tension to lift up the grip zone from the snow when you are not kicking down. They have a limited sidecut (width difference between shovel and underfoot) of 10mm which indicates that they are optimised for going straight. These skis are probably great at covering longer distances in snow which is not too deep.
To get these skis to telemark turn you need to apply a lot of pressure to flatten them. It can be done but it is probably difficult.

Third, I never heard of Whitewoods boots, but after googling some images they do look like sneakers with a 75mm sole. They are probably fine for comfortable cross country skiing. I suspect that the soles are probably not torsionally very stiff, and this would not help to transfer power to your skis for telemark turning.

The cable will help somewhat to provide tension to the sole, however if the shaft is not very supportive then it still will be difficult.

For cross country skiing off track and exploring not too steep areas, the equipment you have is probably fine. For telemarking downhills, neither your boots nor your skis are ideal.

As @EvanTrem suggests Scarpa T4 or Garmont Excursion will allow you to really power your skis. This will make an enormous difference, however the skis are not designed for turning, rather for covering distance on consolidated snow. So I don't think they are is such a good match with your current skis. Especially considering the potential investment.

Alico Ski March boots MAY be a solution if they fit your feet. You can only find them new on Ebay or used somewhere else. The sizing is British, make sure that you get the right size.

Good new 75mm leather boots are Crispi Antarctic / Sydpolen / Bre, these would provide moderate support for telemarking in good snow conditions plus provide XC capabilities at least as good as your current boots. However don't expect miracles in the turning department with your double cambered XC skis.

An alternative is to get new (or used) skis which are a bit happier to turn. Finding the right ones depends on how much you want to tour distances compared to turning downhill. And I suspect that your would be limited by your boots anyways.
There is nothing wrong with your current skis for flatter tours.

[Telerock]

After 15 years of alpine fixed heel and cross country skiing with low boots; I finally bought some high stiff asolo extreme leather boots (unfortunately no longer available new). The ankle support is critical ( think ice skating in sneakers). Relitively recently I bought some alico leathers, some of their stiffest, for under $400. Personally, for back country, I would steer away from plastic boots. The boots are the most important item in your kit.

The second is the binding. The three pin is all I have ever used, cables help on downhills.

That said, I started telemarking in 1985 with double camber, no sidecut, long skis, and wrestled with them for years. A shorter ski with a modest 10mm sidecut made it much easier. My go-to ski is the Rossi BC.

Finally, front and back balance is more difficult with tele. It is tempting to put your weight on the front ski and push it forward as you initiate the turn, but if you do not sit back a tad, the back ski tends to wobble around. I found lift-serve green runs on packed powder useful for practicing long arc turns without needing to worry about the trees and rocks that complicate back country skiing. As with fixed heel, if you concentrate on keeping your upper body pointed down the slope, it may be easier. With your fixed heel experience, it may be difficult to find the front-back balance, as leaning forward needs to be unlearned.

Welcome; and wishing you smooth rides!

[greatgt]

Pins and leathers, since @1980.....Telekid and i like the look of those Fischer 62's...Got a set for my wife...Unfortunately the skis have one of those plastic nnn thingers and we can't steal them for a run or two....Don't worry about camber...It's good for everything in the BC...Cruising...going up....crossing streams...On the down camber reduces resistance so you pick up speed fast which makes for easier turns...have a blast...TM

[BCStu]

Thanks for the replies

Knowing my gear is imposing a limit on how much downhill I can progress to definitely helps.
I'll order the cables today, keep working at it and start looking for some new boots and skis

Great forum here!

[BCStu]

Thought I would just post a quick update

I have a pair of Alpina Blazer boots that came with my wife's skis we bought used (the skis were her size but the boots were my size, maybe why he was selling them?)
I tried the Blazers a couple times at the start of the season but found the Whitewoods more comfortable and looked more like beefy backcountry boot then the blazers. Also I was really still getting comfortable with k&g, I put the Blazers away

I tried the Blazers again today and sure enough not as comfortable but so much better ski control, and k&g (Whitewoods seemed to slip a lot on the kick)

So I compared bending the soles of each boot and the Whitewoods bend like a running shoe, where as the blazers take much more force to bend, and it clicked why boots make such a difference

Definitely going pick up a proper set of boots next

[lowangle al]

I just tried nnn bc for the first time yesterday when I switched skis with my friend. It was alpina discovery skis with an alpina bc boot. The boot was like a sneaker and was the weak link in the system. The skis turned nicely in the smooth soft snow as long as I kept them in the fall line but if I had to make a sharper turn or a sudden stop it wasn’t happening. Since I had no “brakes” I went just as fast as I did on my heavy gear but when I made it to the bottom safely I felt like I won the lottery.

[Lumpy]

I have the whitewoods boots & they are the weak link. I can easily stem turns on the e99’s with also weak 3-pin bail bindings but control is shaky & tele’s are really tough. Will have voile 3-pin cables mounted this weekend but still unsure which boots. Now leaning towards antarctic after reading all the doubts about the thermomolded soles.

So, I would recommend upgrading your boots.

On the flip side, if i wanna rail tele turns, i can break out the evo, pariah & ntn combo. Just don’t feel like lift served ski area.

[connyro]

Those whitewoods boots are not great but do work ok. If your rear ski is wobbling around it means you are not balanced correctly and are not in a correct tele stance. Adjust your stance so that you pressure the rear ski more and you will gain control and confidence. Many alpine skiers tend to incorrectly weigh the front (downhill) too much when first starting out tele.