New BCXC considering Fischer Traverse 78 / S 88 / S 98

[dave52]

Hello friends -

Never tried BCXC, a little experience with groomed XC. Hoping to hear some gear recommendations for exploring nature


Use:
I ski mostly in NW and SE Wisconsin. Looking to break trail, on mostly flat and rolling hill terrain, skiing into ATV and summer hiking trails, and through open woods of tight trees and smaller brush. Also hoping to occasionally ride down moderate declines, and learning to tele turn. WI really doesn't have much for high altitude, especially where I am.

70% singletrack / 20% exploration (through woods and brush) / 10% downhill

Weather:

• Snowfall annual averages
  • NW WI ~71"
  • SE WI ~52"

• Season Nov - Early April

Skis:
I've been combing through threads and the Fischer Traverse 78 / S Bound 88 / S Bound 98 seems like it might be an appropriate fit. Prefer waxless; and love the easy skin option.

Leaning towards Traverse 78, but am curious how turnable and capable this is on downhill, both wider open descents and short sections of tight trail where I can safely burn off speed.

Also open to other ski recommendations!


Ski length:
Currently unsure of appropriate ski length, for my girlfriend and myself. We're both fairly athletic.

Myself:

• 6'2"

• 190lbs

Girlfriend:

• 5'2"

• 140lbs

Sessions would be couple hour long adventures. I rarely carry anything heavy, and would consider packing it out 1x a year to winter camp at most.


Bindings & Boots:
Weighing NNN-BC vs. 3 pin, maybe leaning more towards Voile 3 pin for its telemark ability and attachable cable. Correct me if wrong, sounds like NNN BC is typically more soft and comfortable for K&G stuff though.

As a bonus, I've inherited some classic XC skis with 3 pin bindings, but do not have duckbill boots, not sure if went 3 pin route if the boots would work okay with these old 3 pin skate / classic XC skis. Just a fun thought.


You have a wonderful forum here, glad to have found it! Happy skiing

[RabbitEars]

Hello dave52, Welcome.
There are a lot of really knowledgeable people on this forum that can offer some great advice. I haven't tried a lot of the skis out there but I can speak to the S 98. After a couple seasons with some Rossignol bc 90's and renting some pairs of Madshus I landed on the S 98 and they have been wonderful.

I live in northern Colorado where the snow can get really deep. Cutting trail is a big part of my ski experience and while I avoid the steeps some slopes are certainly a part of the landscape. The S 98 has really made skiing more enjoyable for me. Out of the skis I have used the Fisher Crown pattern has the best climbing ability. I purchased the easy skin but after a good amount of miles I have only used it once. I find if I take care I can get up most everything without them. The width is good for braking trail and helps with flotation on the downhill. I feel like it tracks well and is still turnable. Right now it's the only ski I have which has given me a lot of time to become familiar with it and learn how to drive them. This winter I have really focused on Kick and Glide which this ski does surprisingly well, sometimes it feels effortless. As far as turning goes, the ski is very capable I have found that as my skills improve the ski does what I want it to.

From your description of cutting trail and enjoying the skis when things get slanted I think the S98's do both of those things well and can still K&G.

My girlfriend who I could barley get to go skiing with me last year due to her Madshus skis not being well suited to her, bought a pare of S 98 in her size this season. She is having a much more enjoyable time even looks forward to going skiing now.

Hope that helps. Happy trails.

[ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ]

I have the 88s in 199cm ( I'm 5'11, 190lbs). I am able to engage the crown pattern effectively at this length with decent glide. They crown waxless pattern climbs extremely well IMO. They are not very turny due to the stiff camber. The width and nordic rocker give them reasonably good float. They are stiff enough that they don't suffer too much from the "pool cover syndrome" that many here have described when touring in soft snow. From what I have read, 3 pin doesn't offer any stiffness advantage over nn BC unless you're going up to a boot like the Scarpa T4.

[fisheater]

Welcome Dave,
I will answer the easiest question first, for you at 190 lbs. the longest ski Fischer makes for any of those three skis. Also, I don’t think you will find an E-88 at all, and you will have difficulty finding the other two due to Covid.
I live in Michigan, Telemark skied lift served many years before I started doing this. I went waxless, and maximum turn potential, a S-112. It is a good ski downhill, lots, and lots of better options for kick and glide. What I learned over the course of a few years was best ski for hilly single track is ski made for kick and glide. Of the skis you listed the T-78 is regarded the best for good kick and glide performance. I ski a Åsnes Gamme 54 for this type of skiing, it’s a little longer and skinnier, but it’s faster, to me more fun. A Fischer E-99 would be similar. To me single track is the most fun skiing fast.
Now don’t get me wrong, I enjoy my backcountry turns. It’s just that most of your skiing will be trail skiing, get a fast trail ski. You can buy a more turn oriented ski next year, and you really should!
Now to NNN-BC vs 75 mm? 75 mm can offer more power to turn because you can buy stiffer boots! I own both an Alaska 75 and an Alaska BC, however the Alaska 75 is new. Snow conditions have only allowed trail skiing to date. However I doubt I will find any more turning performance from the Alaska 75. I also doubt I would put the cables on that boot, despite the fact they will be in my pack. I bought the Alaska 75 as a lighter, faster traveling boot for fresh snow, touring for turns. In those conditions and with the ski I would be using, I don’t need cables to turn. However I do have stiffer leather Norwegian welted sole boots that I use the cable with, on occasion. If I use a plastic T-4 boot, I find I need the cable.
My point is that 75 mm offers more boot choices. You must also be informed that there is some difficulty in obtaining Norwegian welted sole leather boots. Odds are you will be mail ordering internationally. The Alaska 75 mm has a thermomolded sole. There are numerous reports of sole failure. The other boot manufacturers utilize the same sole. However they are easily purchased.
So, that is why I would recommend a fast trail ski, NNN-BC binding. You will be able to get a lot of use out of that set up. It will be a lot of fun. It will offer good performance and be quite reliable.
In a year let’s talk about some Norwegian welted boots, 75 mm bindings, and a more downhill oriented ski!

[lowangle al]

I'd say if you want to learn to do telemark turns go with the s98 and three pin binding.

[fisheater]

I'd say if you want to learn to do telemark turns go with the s98 and three pin binding.

That is true. I already know how to make Telemark turn! Going fast on single track is just fun. When it’s fluffy make turns, the rest of the time, go fast and enjoy the roller coaster

[AlaskaNordic]

So my experience is this, like rabbitears, I had a pair of Rossignol BC 90s and before that, i had a pair of Madshus and before that Karhu 10th Mountians. This season im trying something new, skiing on two different pairs of skis one of those happens to be the Traverse 78, they are mounted with a pair of 3pins and I ski them with a pair of Alico Ski Marches. For touring in rolling terrain as you describe they are a dream, also if your going to hit the groomed as you say then they are the best choice. But, for the 10% downhill with some turns, id say bump it up to the middle ski and go with the 88s. Its going tp be a better all around ski, with of course the 98 being better for down hill. Although another thing to consider is if you are truly breaking trail then the 98s are of course wider and give you a better float on fresh snow but you will giveup a little bit of touring and weight. The truth is, you are where i was, I wanted one ski to rule them all, I thought the 90s were that ski and they in fact were not a very good ski over all. Here in Alaska we have literally hundreds and hundreds of miles of trails of differing terrrain so I need a ski for just for them, but we also as you may have heard mountains and in order to FULLY enjoy both you have to spend the money and get the right tools. Thus I have two skis two boots, my other is the Madshus Annum although I would not suggest that for Wisconsin ( yes been there) or what you are looking for as they are wide and heavy. In any event, get some skis winter only has a few months left! Oh another contender is the Madshus line Epochs or Eons, both great skis.

[fisheater]

The S-112 is not what I would choose to break trail with. While the Nordic rocker is good downhill, it is not a good trail breaking ski. The original poster will totally crush the camber on the 98, while being less wide than the 112 it probably will be more pleasant on the trail for 190 lb man. I would bet a 6-pack of micro-brew that the T-78 or E-88 would both be better trail breakers than the S-98. The S-98 would be way better making turns downhill. Also from everything I’ve read on the latest models the E-88 doesn’t really turn better than the T-78. Also the E-88 will be very difficult to find.
It’s about what you want to do. If you have logging roads, and long enough downhills get a ski oriented to turning. If you are skiing hilly single track with shorter downhills get a fast touring ski. I guess I’ll edit that there are fast touring skis that turn a bit better Nansen and E-109, and the Ingstad is turnier and geared to deeper snow.

[dave52]

Thank you for the responses, I appreciate the feedback!

I currently have a set of Rossignol XC 60 Skin skis for burning around groomed track, so no concern looking for another ski to use on piste. Once I realized how limited the Rossis are off track, this forum was quickly found

Of the skis you listed the T-78 is regarded the best for good kick and glide performance. I ski a Åsnes Gamme 54 for this type of skiing, it’s a little longer and skinnier, but it’s faster, to me more fun. A Fischer E-99 would be similar. To me single track is the most fun skiing fast.
Now don’t get me wrong, I enjoy my backcountry turns. It’s just that most of your skiing will be trail skiing, get a fast trail ski. You can buy a more turn oriented ski next year, and you really should!
...
Now to NNN-BC vs 75 mm?
I would recommend a fast trail ski, NNN-BC binding. You will be able to get a lot of use out of that set up. It will be a lot of fun. It will offer good performance and be quite reliable.

I'll likely heed your advice, and be sensible to opt for something for main use case, (70% singletrack / 20% woods / 10% downhill). Based on that going to eliminate S-bound 98.

In regards to boots/bindings, ideally it'd be nice to have a single pair boots, leaning towards 75mm compatible ones, that would work for XC and (future) XCD skis, would you advise against this?

Also from everything I’ve read on the latest models the E-88 doesn’t really turn better than the T-78.
...
It’s about what you want to do. If you have logging roads, and long enough downhills get a ski oriented to turning. If you are skiing hilly single track with shorter downhills get a fast touring ski. I guess I’ll edit that there are fast touring skis that turn a bit better Nansen and E-109, and the Ingstad is turnier and geared to deeper snow.

How much of a slog is it to opt for the larger E-88 over T-78 on XC trails? T-78 if it turns the same is probably the most attractive option. But then you dropped your Asnes recommendations lol...

I did some research into the Asnes Instad and Nansen, these are actually very appealing. For XCD the Ingstad seems impressive, but sounds like it may have trouble breaking trail with certain conditions? Is it feasible to use Instad for XC? Also the E-109 w/ crown was my original pick but hard to find. The Nansen might be a great fit, reviews claim it's turnable, does it require ninja skill for this? lol

Anyone have thoughts on Fischer T-78 vs. Asnes Nansen?

Lastly, on a skinnier ski, is it easy to safely slow down on steep terrain? curious if tossing on the skins helps here, or good technique alone will keep me out of the trees way.

[fisheater]

Dave,
I don’t own a T-78, E-88, or Ingstad.
The 88 would float a little better, and be a bit slower. I do not think you will be able to buy one this year. It gets more difficult every day to buy skis, Covid buying, and it seems to be a preferred ski by people buying this season.
Search Lilcliffy in the reviews. Gareth’s reviews are well written, and of an excellent perspective.
Read some of his reviews, however if you want to go waxless the T-78 may be a good choice.
Now for 75 mm, I like it a lot. I do not want to recommend a 75 mm Alaska or similar thermomolded sole is due to the amount of boot failures. Now I bought an Alaska 75 this year, as a lighter option to my Alico Ski March boot. If my Alaska fails, like many have, I’m bummed, but I have another leather boot. The easily available leather 75 mm boots all have the same sole. As a matter of fact, all the NNN-BC boots have the same manufacturer, which would be a more correct statement in regards to 75 mm boots. Now if you want a Norwegian welted 75 mm boot, I would say by all means go for it! There is one distributor of one boot in the USA Fey Brothers of New Hampshire sell the Crispi Antarctic, by all reviews an excellent boot!
My recommendation for a skinny trail ski to be mounted NNN-BC is just the boots have a better durability track record. There isn’t much difference in the turning chops between an Alaska 75 and an Alaska BC.
One more thing about boots. Next year there is a brand new boot and binding system coming out, that will be beefier in boot offerings than what is currently offered in NNN-BC. When you decide to get that turnier ski, that may be the way to go.
Good luck, snow is rolling in. My advice would be get a ski soon and enjoy.
Bob