Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
Hello everyone! It's my first post here ! I was looking for information on previous posts about what kind of telemark kit would be the best of a multi-days traverse/expedition and I could not really find any . So here we go !
My needs:
I am 5'11'', 80 kg. Still a beginner in telemark.
Budget: Low-Medium. I would be willing to have the ''perfect kit unlimited budget version'' and the ''cheap version''. For exemple, I got some Garmont 2 clips boots second hand instead of a new pair for T4 scarpa boots.
1. I need a kit (boots-bindings-skis) for multi-days winter camping trips. Most often with a heavy backpack, but sometimes with a pulka. Sometimes in hilly terrain, sometimes on flat terrain.
2. I also want to use that kit for going backcountry skiing for a day without any backpack. Usually in a hilly forest. I do not want to use it in a really steep terrain for touring skiing doing ''up and down''.
3. I want a kit that's gonna complete the kit that I already have
What I already have
- Regular Downhill skis (120-80-110) (picture1)
- 7TM binding (picture1)
- Garmont 2 clips boot (picture2)
- Full Skins
I was using that kit for pretty much everything. Downhill skiing in center, touring skiing, multi-days expeditions. The skis have no scales, so I need to put my full lenght skin when I go BC. It's good for some ''up and down'', but pretty boring when I try to do some distance. Too heavy and it is not sliding at all with the full skin. That's why I'm looking for a new kit to be able to do some distance in the BC. Eventually, I want to upgrade that kit in the next years when I'll be better at telemark for a better touring kit. Powder skis, with 4 clips boots and stiffer bindings.
What I think I should be looking for
Skis:
I first thought that I should buy a nordic ski something like rossi BC 80 or 100, Madshus Epoch 68 or Fischer S-Bound 98. There are so may of them, let me know if think you have THE one for me. However, somebody told me recently that you need to choose those skis acording to your weight. Meaning that if you choose them according to the weight you will have during your expeditions, with an extra 30kg, your camber is gonna be to stiff when you'll want to go for a day trip. The scales won't touch the snow. On the other hand, if you choose it with your normal body weight, when I'll have a heavy backpack, I'll just sink into the powder. It's gonna be very hard to do some distance on unpack snow which is where I want to go.
So, he recommended me the Voile skis that are made for that kind of stuff since they have a different structure. For exemple, on the Voile website for the V6 skis, if I choose the 188cm, there are good for 68+ KG. So perfect for with or without heavy backpack. What do you guys think? However, if I do so, I could sell my actual kit since the voile skis gonna be better for touring than the one I have right now. I'm just sceptical about a to-do all ski. I heard the voile skis are a mix betweena touring and nordic ski. The only off-trade that I understand would be to do some distance on a flat terrain without backpack, it's gonna be slower than narrower skis.
Boots:
-The Garmont have a liner, so I'll probably use them for multi-days to heat them up in my sleeping bag during the night and have a stiffer boot for downhill with a heavy backpack.
-For day trip, I just got the Rossi BCx12 that I found second hand. I'll be happy to hear what's your preference though.
Bindings:
Probably the Voile 3-pin Cable Traverse. However, on a multi-day, I will probably use my Garmont boots. I'm just wondering if it's gonna be awkward to do some long distance with that 3-pin resistance and a plastic boot (I would not use the cable when I'll be doing distance though, just the 3-pin). On the other side, if I choose the Voile Switchback, with the pivot, I won't have any resistance at all. However, for a day trip, with my Rossi BCx12, it won't really work.
Thank you so much to have taken the time to read the whole post . I really appreciate!!! So Voile skis or Rossi BC80, or something else that I'm not even aware of?
Alex
My needs:
I am 5'11'', 80 kg. Still a beginner in telemark.
Budget: Low-Medium. I would be willing to have the ''perfect kit unlimited budget version'' and the ''cheap version''. For exemple, I got some Garmont 2 clips boots second hand instead of a new pair for T4 scarpa boots.
1. I need a kit (boots-bindings-skis) for multi-days winter camping trips. Most often with a heavy backpack, but sometimes with a pulka. Sometimes in hilly terrain, sometimes on flat terrain.
2. I also want to use that kit for going backcountry skiing for a day without any backpack. Usually in a hilly forest. I do not want to use it in a really steep terrain for touring skiing doing ''up and down''.
3. I want a kit that's gonna complete the kit that I already have
What I already have
- Regular Downhill skis (120-80-110) (picture1)
- 7TM binding (picture1)
- Garmont 2 clips boot (picture2)
- Full Skins
I was using that kit for pretty much everything. Downhill skiing in center, touring skiing, multi-days expeditions. The skis have no scales, so I need to put my full lenght skin when I go BC. It's good for some ''up and down'', but pretty boring when I try to do some distance. Too heavy and it is not sliding at all with the full skin. That's why I'm looking for a new kit to be able to do some distance in the BC. Eventually, I want to upgrade that kit in the next years when I'll be better at telemark for a better touring kit. Powder skis, with 4 clips boots and stiffer bindings.
What I think I should be looking for
Skis:
I first thought that I should buy a nordic ski something like rossi BC 80 or 100, Madshus Epoch 68 or Fischer S-Bound 98. There are so may of them, let me know if think you have THE one for me. However, somebody told me recently that you need to choose those skis acording to your weight. Meaning that if you choose them according to the weight you will have during your expeditions, with an extra 30kg, your camber is gonna be to stiff when you'll want to go for a day trip. The scales won't touch the snow. On the other hand, if you choose it with your normal body weight, when I'll have a heavy backpack, I'll just sink into the powder. It's gonna be very hard to do some distance on unpack snow which is where I want to go.
So, he recommended me the Voile skis that are made for that kind of stuff since they have a different structure. For exemple, on the Voile website for the V6 skis, if I choose the 188cm, there are good for 68+ KG. So perfect for with or without heavy backpack. What do you guys think? However, if I do so, I could sell my actual kit since the voile skis gonna be better for touring than the one I have right now. I'm just sceptical about a to-do all ski. I heard the voile skis are a mix betweena touring and nordic ski. The only off-trade that I understand would be to do some distance on a flat terrain without backpack, it's gonna be slower than narrower skis.
Boots:
-The Garmont have a liner, so I'll probably use them for multi-days to heat them up in my sleeping bag during the night and have a stiffer boot for downhill with a heavy backpack.
-For day trip, I just got the Rossi BCx12 that I found second hand. I'll be happy to hear what's your preference though.
Bindings:
Probably the Voile 3-pin Cable Traverse. However, on a multi-day, I will probably use my Garmont boots. I'm just wondering if it's gonna be awkward to do some long distance with that 3-pin resistance and a plastic boot (I would not use the cable when I'll be doing distance though, just the 3-pin). On the other side, if I choose the Voile Switchback, with the pivot, I won't have any resistance at all. However, for a day trip, with my Rossi BCx12, it won't really work.
Thank you so much to have taken the time to read the whole post . I really appreciate!!! So Voile skis or Rossi BC80, or something else that I'm not even aware of?
Alex
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- Garmont boots
-
- Skis + bindings
- Baaahb
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:03 am
- Location: Tahoe, Teton Valley
- Ski style: free heel, touring to turning
- Favorite Skis: Boundless, Rossy BC-125, Voile Vector, BD Converts......
- Favorite boots: Alpinas, Excursions, T-1's
- Occupation: Correcting people on the internet
Re: Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
IMO you should go lighter on the boots and wider on the skis.
Are you going to be kick waxing? If not, fishscales are much faster than skins. Kicker (half) skins are much faster than full length skins. A fishscale ski may not give enough grip to pull a pulk but a kicker skin will.
Stepping down to a lighter boot from a plastic buckle boot you will likely want to go to a 3-pin or nnn-bc binding.
IMO (and I am not alone in this) a free pivot does not make kick and glide easier. Free pivot were mostly designed for people skinning up steeper slopes....stepping, not skiing. A cable does make K&G harder. As does a heavy boot.
Skis: consider the Rossy, Fischer, Madshus and other fishscale (or waxable) xcd skis. If you're not determined to speed over the snow, most like the better stability of the wider skis.
Are you going to be kick waxing? If not, fishscales are much faster than skins. Kicker (half) skins are much faster than full length skins. A fishscale ski may not give enough grip to pull a pulk but a kicker skin will.
Stepping down to a lighter boot from a plastic buckle boot you will likely want to go to a 3-pin or nnn-bc binding.
IMO (and I am not alone in this) a free pivot does not make kick and glide easier. Free pivot were mostly designed for people skinning up steeper slopes....stepping, not skiing. A cable does make K&G harder. As does a heavy boot.
Skis: consider the Rossy, Fischer, Madshus and other fishscale (or waxable) xcd skis. If you're not determined to speed over the snow, most like the better stability of the wider skis.
- lilcliffy
- Posts: 4157
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
- Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
- Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
- Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
- Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
- Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger
Re: Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
Hello and Welcome Alex!
I am a bit confused by the details of your post and the equipment you are selecting.
Why are you choosing downhill ski equipment for XC trekking- pulling a pulk?
Voile does not make XC-Nordic touring-expedition skis- a V6 is not a Nordic touring ski- not even a hybrid one.
Why would you suffer all the weight and resistance of a downhill setup?
Gareth
I am a bit confused by the details of your post and the equipment you are selecting.
Why are you choosing downhill ski equipment for XC trekking- pulling a pulk?
Voile does not make XC-Nordic touring-expedition skis- a V6 is not a Nordic touring ski- not even a hybrid one.
Why would you suffer all the weight and resistance of a downhill setup?
Gareth
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.
- lowangle al
- Posts: 2755
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:36 pm
- Location: Pocono Mts / Chugach Mts
- Ski style: BC with focus on downhill perfection
- Favorite Skis: powder skis
- Favorite boots: Scarpa T4
- Occupation: Retired cement mason. Current job is to take my recreation as serious as I did my past employment.
Re: Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
I can understand why a guy would want to use plastic boots and wide skis, but i would suggest the Voile ultra vector as opposed to the V6 for what the OP described.
Re: Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
all of the features you are looking for greatly depend on snow conditions and the possibilities are quite varied depending on your needs. I have done a fair amount of multiday trips.
Please be more specific so we can help you.
conditions of snow?
how heavy is your pack?
how much flat terrain vs. downhill?
any steep ascents/descents?
doing any climbing/boot packing?
any technical ascents requiring rope and climbing gear?
distance/vertical per day?
how slow or fast are you planning on going?
are you breaking trail?
do you need a ski that turns?
Please be more specific so we can help you.
conditions of snow?
how heavy is your pack?
how much flat terrain vs. downhill?
any steep ascents/descents?
doing any climbing/boot packing?
any technical ascents requiring rope and climbing gear?
distance/vertical per day?
how slow or fast are you planning on going?
are you breaking trail?
do you need a ski that turns?
Re: Which skis for multi-days expedition? Voile V6? Rossi BC100?
No ski recommendations, Alex (others know current models better), but some considerations and my preferences for multiday trips. First, kudos. This is the highest and best thing you can do on skis, I feel. Be aware I ski in the California Sierra and most expeditions have been in spring. Open terrain, re-frozen mornings, soften days, running water usually once a day. My prejudices:
--there is no kick and glide with a pack over 20lbs. I value stability over all.
--One of the worst energy drains is the emergency response to losing grip on the up, flailing. For when you need it, you want full skins (edit: not wall-to-wall, straight fine) . Patterned bases got me almost across the Sierra in 7 days, but for one steep up (partner didn't use his skins at all).
--Steel edges, no doubt, but also there is real value in stiffness and not too much sidecut in skis when you are on crusty traverse for a long time. I would not favor a tip near 100 with a middle under 70 however good a turner.
--Instability and the related anxiety are real energy drains.
--Skis must turn. Loaded faceplants bad. So I value skis not too long. Unless you want to get in to basecamp, and spend days touring low rolling terrain, long skis just too much harder to turn...at the maximum speed you want to faceplant... with that gnome on your back.
--Unless you're pulling pulk (even then?) be militant about reducing gear load. The heavier your pack is, the stouter your "hiking boots" must be (meaning your skis and boots).
--Some people welcome the prospect of building a fire to dry their leather boots. Not me. I place high value on eliminating fuss-factor. No ice shoes in the morning. Can take foam liners to bed (but no velcro!!). Can put bare feet in plastic shells to ford a creek if needed & put dry socks & liners back on at other side and ski away.
Hell, I'd go out on that rig you have now! First I'd switch the bindings, then--while at it--the skis. You'd shed pounds swapping those Synergy boots for Excursions or T4s, but they are about the weight of what I use.
Again--these are just some notions. The energy penalty is high for pounds-on-feet versus pounds-on-back; pounds that come to a complete stop with every step versus pounds always in motion while you are. You can go multiday on skinnies and bowling shoes, but it's a system that has to be adopted. I did it. But I was young...and I suffered
Cheers
--there is no kick and glide with a pack over 20lbs. I value stability over all.
--One of the worst energy drains is the emergency response to losing grip on the up, flailing. For when you need it, you want full skins (edit: not wall-to-wall, straight fine) . Patterned bases got me almost across the Sierra in 7 days, but for one steep up (partner didn't use his skins at all).
--Steel edges, no doubt, but also there is real value in stiffness and not too much sidecut in skis when you are on crusty traverse for a long time. I would not favor a tip near 100 with a middle under 70 however good a turner.
--Instability and the related anxiety are real energy drains.
--Skis must turn. Loaded faceplants bad. So I value skis not too long. Unless you want to get in to basecamp, and spend days touring low rolling terrain, long skis just too much harder to turn...at the maximum speed you want to faceplant... with that gnome on your back.
--Unless you're pulling pulk (even then?) be militant about reducing gear load. The heavier your pack is, the stouter your "hiking boots" must be (meaning your skis and boots).
--Some people welcome the prospect of building a fire to dry their leather boots. Not me. I place high value on eliminating fuss-factor. No ice shoes in the morning. Can take foam liners to bed (but no velcro!!). Can put bare feet in plastic shells to ford a creek if needed & put dry socks & liners back on at other side and ski away.
Hell, I'd go out on that rig you have now! First I'd switch the bindings, then--while at it--the skis. You'd shed pounds swapping those Synergy boots for Excursions or T4s, but they are about the weight of what I use.
Again--these are just some notions. The energy penalty is high for pounds-on-feet versus pounds-on-back; pounds that come to a complete stop with every step versus pounds always in motion while you are. You can go multiday on skinnies and bowling shoes, but it's a system that has to be adopted. I did it. But I was young...and I suffered
Cheers