Would you screw kicker skins directly into the ski base?

[lilcliffy]

I'm going to mill a slot 1/2 inch wide to pull the the skin through and attach it to the top with a post through a hole in the skin. I will seal the hole with some epoxy.

The biggest question is how risky will it be to weakening the ski? They are a pair of old Alpine skis so I'm not to worried about it as Alpine skis are built to take the pressure right in front of the binding which is where the skin comes through. And as I'm skiing with a few heel it will never approach that kind of loading.

VERY cool. Love this DIY approach to this.
If I understand you- you plan on milling a lateral slot- similar to Fischer's Easy-Skin slot?
How are you going to seal the interior of the ski from moisture?

As far as weakening the ski- the lateral skin slot still gives me the eebee-geebees- I have not broken one yet, but I have not put any of my Easy-Skin skis through the hard-charging that I have my Asnes Skin-Lock/X-Skin skis...

I have yet to hear a report of an Easy Skin ski snapping at that point but have read a number of reports of the Easy-Skin plastic sleeve (that the skin slides through) breaking out of the ski.

[trite]

As far as weakening the ski- the lateral skin slot still gives me the eebee-geebees- I have not broken one yet, but I have not put any of my Easy-Skin skis through the hard-charging that I have my Asnes Skin-Lock/X-Skin skis...

Do you think my idea of two threaded inserts might also weaken the ski? Don't want to snap my ski!

[lilcliffy]

@trite

I think your idea is SUPER cool- as in sooopur cool!

I think the idea of the threaded inserts would weaken the ski less than the lateral skin slot...

I think testing this on the Asnes USGI ski is a brilliant idea.

Maybe I missed something-
How are you going to deal with the transition from the ski base to the skin?
How do you keep the skin from peeling back from the base if the only thing holding it there is the screws- or are you screwing thru a plate?

[trite]

How are you going to deal with the transition from the ski base to the skin?
How do you keep the skin from peeling back from the base if the only thing holding it there is the screws- or are you screwing thru a plate?

Thanks!

I plan to drill holes in the plate where the current rivets sit. (Then remove the strap).

I'll then be able to screw in right through the plate and skin directly to the threaded inserts in the base. I'm hoping that, without the strap, the screws will draw the plate and skin tighter to the ski base. More flush, less ice jams, no possibility of strap or buckle failures.

Just quadruple-checking this plan with you all before drilling to make sure I'm not missing any glaring issues!

[lilcliffy]

On the subject of the Skin-Lock/X-Skin kicker skin plates-

I notice zero drag issues on soft snow or wet snow- definitely notice drag on ice, and hardpack- less on my Gamme 54- more drag on the Combat Nato.

The plastic X-Skin plate offers less drag- but the metal Skin-Lock plate is definitely more durable.

I use the BD universal kicker skins on my touring skis that do not have kicker skins- but they have never seen a lot of use, so I cannot speak to their durability. They have mainly been used for a bit of extra climbing grip- when the snow is too wet for hard grip wax- being easier to take off than a full-length skin- better in low-vertical touring.
I have not used the BD kicker skins for extended XC skiing.
In my most recent multi-day pulk-pulling trips I have had Asnes/Fischer skis with the integrated kicker skins.

[lilcliffy]

@trite
This is a brilliant idea man ↑
Please keep us posted!

[Akaro]

My idea was precuting a rectangle in the base of the ski and then glueing the skin in that hole, maybe scew it too.
I dont know if you understand me as my English is shity.
I want to do that on an old alpine ski with 75mm bindings as my old asnes skis dont have enough grip for the typicall terrain here in the pyrenees( not flat at all)
Have you done or seen somethin similar?

[Akaro]

My idea was precuting a rectangle in the base of the ski and then glueing the skin in that hole, maybe scew it too.
I dont know if you understand me as my English is shity.
I want to do that on an old alpine ski with 75mm bindings as my old asnes skis dont have enough grip for the typicall terrain here in the pyrenees( not flat at all)
Have you done or seen somethin similar?

[bgregoire]

@Woodserson and @bgregoire, I'll let you know where I'm headed soon!

The darn bindings & skis broke but the kickers did not (and they were not even new).

Ooof, a broken ski is the only piece of gear for which I've yet to make a repair plan.

It might seem advantageous but you are basically wrecking your skis.

Why would threaded inserts in the ski base ruin the ski? How would inserts affect the ski any more than the two open slots in Asnes' current skin attachment system?

Why not buy a new pair of sexy Asnes skis with half skins?

I have three pair of the Asnes USGI -- heavy, sure, but I love these skis, and they're perfect for trips with long, flat lake travel and rough, deep portages. You need a lot of beef and a lot of float.

I guess the Combat NATO or the Ingstad rival this pair, but that's a waste when these work so great. (My partner and I have put hundreds of miles on these over several trips with no issues so far). They also look dope af.

I can let myself sacrifice one pair of these USGI if I botch the insert job.

If you do decide to glue the skins, I would not use a plate (but if you do insist, shave the skin at the point first

Another cool thing with the removable skins is that you might like to ski without skins on some particular days where the snow is just right and you pulk is light. You can wax full length with better results than skins and it fees great

My plan was to modify that plate attachment, not mess with glue. My intended goal is for a more robust attachment point that still allows me to unscrew a couple screws and quickly remove the skins when necessary.

How would this differ from Asnes' current system?

Besides, I'm not sure your threaded insert idea would even work because of the thickness of the ski at the area where the screws should bne (approximates BD plate position).

It's 14mm deep where I would drill, and the insert is only 9mm long, so it should be fine.

However, on that note, before drilling permanent holes, is there a rule of thumb for kicker skin placement? I know its entirely relative on kick zone, snow conditions, personal preference, etc.

I've also learned so much from @lilcliffy and his posts on extending kick wax forward for additional grip.

I've yet to try wax full length though, like you mentioned. I really need to try this.

--

Really appreciate your thoughts, so helpful that you've used these skins on expedition! Relieved to know no major issues. Would still like to have a cleaner and stronger attachment though, hmmm...

Sorry if I was not more positive. I see I assumed a few things that were clarified later on in the conversation.

Woods his it on the nail. If you are going to mod those ASNES USGI, I have absolutely no problem with that. I had assumed you were going to try it out on an expensive more modern pair, with usually thinner cores.

I would not worry much about the ski breaking to the point that you can no longer ski it. Even if it delaminates, you should still be able to go a very long ways with em.

I assumed you were going to glue the skins to the ski AND screw them in, as was often done for polar expeditions a while back. They even did this with 3/4 length skins as their pulka could be very heavy.

The cool thing about glueing and screwing is to do without the plate, which can be quite a drag (pun intended) on hard abrasive snow.

If you are going to go the trouble of modding your skis, I'd still suggest finding a solution that rids oneself completely of a plate. A few options were mentionned above and I think they will be superior from a glide standpoint.

Still, your idea, if the thickness of the ski core allows, as you confirm, will work. I just think it could be better.

Also, please keep in mind my suggestion to screw the skin in without a plate impluied the skin was also glued to the base with epoxy or something similair, so the skin should not peel of at the front at all. But I understand that is not your goal here.

Please tell us more about the location your are aimeing for, or at least the snow conditions you expect most. This will have an incidence base/skin prep.

Have fun playing around and getting serious!

[bgregoire]

Trite, just saw your more indepth design explanation.

I think the the insert idea is cool, but I have another simpler, and what appears to me, more solid concept.

Drill holes only slightly larger than your chosen screws. Lather the inside of the holes with epoxy to make them waterproof. Place you plate arrangement with pre drilled holes on the skis, pass the screw through and place a locking nut and tighten on the other side. Voila. I'd feel more confident the screws would not come loose that way. If a screw loosens in your setup, you either loose it without noticing, increase drag or worse yet, catch it on a rock or branch and tear the insert out of the ski. (As the BD plaste is not flush, it will flex a little as you ski and this may be enough to loosen the screws from the inserts).

Just some ideas....