The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[MikeK]

Yes. I agree with you there. And that's where I thought you were going initially.

Boot pushes down on the plate on the inside, and upward on the bail on the outside when rolling the boot.

NNN does this too, but the lever ratios are much smaller, hence less control.

I'm not sure about that manual NNN. I'd like to see the internals of the mechanism. The auto is complete junk though.

[Raventele]

The manual was created because of all the icing issues with the auto..and sometimes just getting into an "auto" can be a real bitch whereas you have more control latching the manual, but other than that, I never saw any big improvements in terms of performance. A somewhat bigger bar and latch replace the auto.. BFD.
A big problem for NNN is the terrible lack of lateral stability..there just isn't any; the pilot binding is much better in this regard. If I were to get back into skating or system BC, it would be SNS Pilot, no brainer. Compare the two by simply putting on a ski of each and twisting them in the air.

[MikeK]

I agree, the SNS looks like the better system on paper. Seen how it is has itself pigeon-holed, it doesn't work out if the boots don't fit you, or if you can't even find the boots you want.

At least with NNN there are some other manufacturers of boots. It's a virtual free-for-all in the NN world. Lots of manufacturers and styles. It still seems to me there aren't enough high quality ones left on the lighter end of the scale.

For those of us with SFS a.k.a. Shitty Foot Syndrome, plastic can be scary.

FWIW my Salomon hiking boots fit me great. I wonder how their BC boots run?

[Johnny]

I used to have a very scientific mind. As a sound engineer, I spent my life trying to solve everything with science and physics. I would devote plenty of time to Lorentz, Tesla and Hawking. But I realized every time I would finally solve a problem, it would always create additional, bigger, larger scale problems. So I tried to solve more complex puzzles with philosophy. It was much better. It made a lot more sense, but answers were still not 100% accurate.

And then I totally quit everything and switched to the spiritual side... Wooooo! Theosophy, Taoism, esoteric Buddhism, dowsing, astral projection, lucid dreaming, occultism etc... Suddenly, everything is easy, everything is so much clearer... And most important, much more simple!

Teleman, I'm crazy about old wooden skis... You NEED to show me your archives...! Is there any Canadian beer you really like but you can't find in VT? : )

Look what I just scored yesterday, I nice pair of wooden Artis skis... I wonder where I'll find cables for this...?

[MikeK]

I spent a fair deal of my teens in the recording studio. Thought I wanted to do audio engineering... thought I was pretty good at it too.

Lots of drugs later I was into ecology. Then I found out what a real chem lab was all about. Got out of that.

Some more drugs and I found myself working as a mechanic. I've always loved cars and solving problems... it worked out pretty well until I met some 70 year old techs who were still working to pay off their toolbox. Got out of that.

Still more drugs and then I decided I'd take my passion for problem solving and become an engineer again. Audio, electrical, or mechanical? I like them all. Turns out I was pretty good at that engineer shit too. Maths, science, problem solving, etc... so I gave it a shot.

Wound up mechanical. It was the closest to my passions at the time. I still dabble in electrical here and there, but I realized when I worked with real EE's how much different they thought than I do. I chose wisely.

I quit the drugs and got a real job.

Sometimes I think the whole thing is just a bunch of bullshit. Creating problems to fix problems to make money. A lot of stuff that people don't need that causes more problems. I get it. I hate it sometimes. Maybe academia would be more pure? I doubt it. The grass is always greener. So maybe I should just water my grass... I don't know. Industry is captivating and exciting while at the same time extremely limiting and frustrating. That whole money thing. It really gets in the way of creativity and true progress. Preconceptions get in the way of creativity. Reality gets in the way...

Anyway, I think now it's all about balance. Balance between fun and work. Between the natural and the artificial. Between love and hate. It can't all be one way or the other... at least not for me. I wish it could, but reality tells me it can't. And balance has made me happier than any drug or philosophy. Not always, but on average it works.

[Raventele]

Here's an old riser I like that I may use for my next XCD skis.. 8 screws total


Of course I can also use this riser , 7 screw system..


Here's one of my spare NNN bindings I will use on some XC ski..some day..4 screw system but the back screw is very small and really takes little load.


Here's a direct comparison of the screws involved in the 2 systems.


BTW Mike, it sounds like there's enough math and engineering folks around this forum for us to have a decent discussion regarding the basic mechanics of skiing -- weight, mass, accelleration, friction, drag , gforces etc

[MikeK]

I'm more interested in what the next ski will be...

Whatever floats by, or something new?

And yeah those NNN screws need not be as beefy. Can't get enough load from the boot to necessitate a larger diameter. The risers OTOH... definitely needed.

On those old bindings it looks like a Voile cable might hook in there. I've not seen many wood skis and bindings like that, but the ones I did, the cables looked exactly the same.

[Raventele]

Well, one of my points is that 4 screws may not be nearly equal to 3..
You can see how effective a pin binding system can be for XCD by just looking at those pix..
Not that I don't like System/NNN ; it's great for some things..And I am waiting for Cima to send me my new NNN/Bc setup on some Outtabounds!! Stiffest boot they make for that too!

[CIMA]

Santa Clause won't come along to your house until you understand the essence of the NNN/BC.

[Teleman]

Understanding and truth comes in many forms.....Rottafella Super Telemark is one of them....Teleman