the Guide Reborn!

[TreeFallin]

i agree with all of that but it is worth noting (hope I'm right) that the Epoch and the 10th mountain are essentially same ski with the exception of white base or black base ... I think sintered and extruded are the words but I could be wrong on that one.

FWIW glide waxing my Epochs seems to be visually working better than waxing the 10th mountains. It is really hard to tell the effect of the glide wax job. It probably makes no difference on kick waxing.

[TreeFallin]

hmm isn't it:

Epoch = 10th mountain
Annum = Guide

?

The Epoch is my widest touring ski that actually tours well and I love how the ski tips behave. I have heard the Annum is where the touring forward stride starts to wander too much to the side (sidecut) bit I don't know as I never bought a pair. But considering how much I love the Epoch/10th Mtn I was always fondly curious about the Annum/Guide

The degree of sidecut is identical between the Annum and the Epoch, and the camber and flex is pretty darn close as well. If you like touring with the Epoch, the Annum will behave the same in terms of XC tracking (and feel equally dead on consolidated snow).

The Epoch certainly at least "appears" to be a touch more cambered than the Annum, but at my 185lbs I certainly cannot feel any difference underfoot, in terms of camber and resistance. The Annum is really just a wider version of the Epoch and that makes a huge difference in deep soft snow. The Epoch is plenty wide for light skiers, but IMO it does not offer enough float for anyone over 160lbs and with its soft tip, single camber and round flex it suffers from severe "pool cover syndrome" when XC skiing in deep soft snow.

[lilcliffy]

i agree with all of that but it is worth noting (hope I'm right) that the Epoch and the 10th mountain are essentially same ski with the exception of white base or black base ... I think sintered and extruded are the words but I could be wrong on that one.

I am almost 100% positive that the Omnitrack-scaled XCD 10th Mountain had an extruded base (I don't know if Karhu ever made a sintered waxable XCD 10th Mtn like they did with the 10th Mountain Tour).
I am 100% positive that all of the current Madshus XCD series (Eon/Epoch/Annum)- with the exception of the Eon Wax- have extruded bases.

[lilcliffy]

hmm isn't it:

Epoch = 10th mountain
Annum = Guide

?

Not sure if I understand your post...
Yes:
Epoch= XCD 10th Mountain
Annum= XCD Guide

Perhaps I was unclear-

Annum: 109-78-95mm= XX-31+17mm sidecut
Epoch: 99-68-84mm= XX-31+16mm sidecut

As neither one of these skis has any rocker, the effective sidecut of both of these skis is almost identical.

[TreeFallin]

Thank You for the clarification and now I understand ... That is actually a very interesting point.

[bgregoire]

i agree with all of that but it is worth noting (hope I'm right) that the Epoch and the 10th mountain are essentially same ski with the exception of white base or black base ... I think sintered and extruded are the words but I could be wrong on that one.

TF, the 10th mountain I am ranting about in my previous post is an older version of the one you are thinking about, its much narrower up front, like 84mm instead of 98mm.

[Rodbelan]

euuuuu

[Rodbelan]

There is at least 3 version of the 10th Mtn Tour:
—2 older ones: 84-68-74, wax and non-wax
—1 newer version: 99/68/84, non-wax
And I've seen (on the net) an another version which was 88-66-78 (?)
They eventually replaced the old 10th Mtn tour with the Dorado when they issued the newer ones (99/68/84). I compared in the makers barn: I am positive.

And the 2 largest skis were called 10th Mtn Tour & 10th Mtn Guide. Most of us would call them the 10th Mtn and the Guide: misleading...

These guys at Karhu were very hard to follow regarding ski names...