The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[CIMA]

It is known that automatic NNN/SNS bindings are prone to icing. My personal experience is NNN BC Magnum blocked by ice.

That's true. That's why I prefer the manual bindings.
I witnessed a friend of mine had problem with icing with Rottefella's BC Magnum, too.
As for the SNS Manual, the icing has never been an issue to me.

[CIMA]

My personal experience is that SNS XA Salomon bindings are effective and sturdy enough to suit my purposes and I do not expect to change it in the nearest future

Ditto!

[CIMA]

Techno mumbo jumbo.....Sorry boys but it's about FEEL and in our world pins FEEL better...They turn better....they go up hill better.... but...in a totally cc environment at a ski area....groomed area..... nnn beats pins totally....Anything downhill pins win...Teleman

Because I go for BC ski tour often, I weigh walking and descending evenly.
For walking, regardless whether groomed or rough snow, I prefer NNN/SNS.
That makes me feel easy always.

[CIMA]

Ron,

My view is that you are presenting a distorted view of 3-pin..

Have you ever been fair to NNN/SNS?

What ? People skating and Xc skiing at 5 -10 mph and less on groomed ez snow conditions is supposed to convince of what, especially when there's not a single parallel or tele turn ??

You seem to underestimate how big spontaneous or cyclical stresses could be applied to the bindings during the racing. The maximum speed of top athletes reaches 50 miles per hour. Since I have some experience in XC racing, I know how fierce their battles would be. Especially during the races of skating, snow surface gets rough easily and different degrees of torsion are being applied to the bindings cyclically from various directions.

Here is another example of extreme conditions where NNN/SNS bindings are used:

[video][/video]

Why don't you encourage those RedBull athletes to switch over to a 3-pin you recommend?

Not all the skate athletes use the pilot SNS.
Before the advent of the pilot, all of them were on normal NNN/SNS.
Anyway, whether to be pilot or not is not a big issue here.

[CIMA]

The system bindings will continue developing by incorporating advanced material/mechanical technologies.
They have a future.



On the other hand, the 3-pins seem to have reached a dead end already.
Their practical values will be possibly outweighed by their antique values in the future. From telemark side, NTN could throw its weight around more. From BC touring side, NNN/SNS with advanced technologies will eat away the turf of the 3-pinners.



I don't hesitate to admit that the 3-pins match very well with the scenery of New England.

I don't know why, but the shape reminds me of horse shoe crab, a living fossil.


(wfla)

[Johnny]

I don't hesitate to admit that the 3-pins match very well with the scenery of New England.
I don't know why, but the shape reminds me of horse shoe crab, a living fossil.

AhahahAHAHAHAHAHhahahah!!!!!!!!!!!

You're good CIMA, you're good...!

[Raventele]

The system bindings will continue developing by incorporating advanced material/mechanical technologies.
They have a future.


1)Yea, like plastic that freezes and breaks..Or little plastic ridges that make for great lateral stability --hence all of the great parallel turn capabilities!!!
On the other hand, the 3-pins seem to have reached a dead end already.
2)Why reinvent the wheel with a flat tire?
Their practical values will be possibly outweighed by their antique values in the future. From telemark side, NTN could throw its weight around more. For BC touring side, NNN/SNS with advanced technologies will eat away the turf of the 3-pinners.



I don't hesitate to admit that the 3-pins match very well with the scenery of New England.

I don't know why, but the shape reminds me of horse shoe crab, a living fossil.


(wfla)

3)This pile of plastic reminds me of NNN..Look they are taking the world by force!!

[Raventele]

Cima , seriously, can you show us NNN on anything other than pretty damned easy snow conditions or prepared surface XC "extreme" skating races ? And bTW, Pilot bindings RULE skating, not NNN.

[MikeK]

I looked up the free body diagram, and I think that would be a nice tool to weigh the both mechanisms fairly.
I hope that analysis won't shun many followers of this topic.

To my regret, the discussions here seem to be turning to something like theological arguments. Even if I presented here additional pictures or reports on the failures of 3-pin (or telemark) bindings or I proved merits or demerits by assistance of your engineering knowledge, adamant 3-pinners wouldn't change their minds until they're martyred. For them, the 3-pin is an icon of their religion. That makes me turn off delving into technical intricacy further.

Yes, look into the force analysis first if you want to compare both from a mechanical standpoint. Then would come stress and structural discussions. You can point out real world examples but we don't know for sure what caused those failures. In the case the torn out screws, it could be that they were not sealed properly and the failure occurred due to weakening of the ski core. I doubt that is the case but if you want to be thorough, then start with the basics.

As far as theological aspects. Sure. I've been there many times when people try to refute physics based on emotion. It's simply a fact of many things in life that people may be swayed by 'feel' rather than data. With things that combine art and science, to which skiing is very much a part (the gear being science, the application being the art), subjectivity can have a major influence.

In my own little world of trying bindings, I've found what I like. I'm not a telemark skier though... I feel I represent the other side of pinners, and that is trail skiers. I don't purposely seek out hills, I deal with them as they present themselves in a particular tour. It's much like XC skiing but on more rugged, un-groomed trails.

[Johnny]

can you show us NNN on anything other than pretty damned easy snow conditions

Raven, that's a very good point. This is THE main lesson I've learned with XCD:
It doesn't have to be difficult to be fun anymore. It doesn't have to be steep, hard, tight, narrow or icy to be fun. Just let yourself glide, follow the curves. Don't force anything... Don't try to control your skis, just let them follow the fall line and move your body accordingly...

It's just like Tai-Chi, don't try to control... Just absorb and redirect the force... Don't try to control things...

XC downhill is sure a different discipline than telemark. Just like NTN is a different thing than telemark. And while I will always have several pairs of pins, I do think NNN is the purest form of XCD.

But hey, please, keep this battle going, it's too funny...