The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[Raventele]

I ski NNN ..but only on XC track skis. If I were to ski any system binding for XCD, I would use the SNS Pilot binding . The second bar really facilitates holding the ball of the foot down properly making a tele turn much easier than on other system options, though it was actually designed for skating not BC skiing

BTW Cima, all pitching, yawing and rolling will, at some critical points, also be translated into stresses on the NNN bindings screws.It's just hard to apply much pressure to a system binding when you are so easily ejected pitching , rolling or yawing --safety features!
Also, while the 3pin system relies on 3 screws, that's only true for pins up through the Classic 3Pin/Cable.. 3pin/Hardwires have a 4-screw system as do the old CRB's and last generation CRB's. And those 4 screws are longer sturdier screws than those used on System bindings.

[CIMA]

Wonderful, except that NNN anything is really not a torsional design..You cannot really apply the same twisting forces to that binding as to 3pin AT all..so who is talking apples and pears ?

I wonder how you found that NNN was not a torsional design.
Please show us how a good torsional design would look like.

[Raventele]

Wonderful, except that NNN anything is really not a torsional design..You cannot really apply the same twisting forces to that binding as to 3pin AT all..so who is talking apples and pears ?

I wonder how you found that NNN was not a torsional design.
Please show us how a good torsional design would look like.

You tell me..Part of the reason given to ski them is "safety"....twist hard --roll, yaw, or pitch..pops free. I have popped out of those bindings countless times just fooling around on XC groomers.

Notice the screws are in risers..and then there are the mounting screws.. all pins are not exactly equal

[Raventele]

^^^ And BTW Cima, you can mount a 3pin cable the same way -- on the 4-screw risers..And why not ? Because it will cost me a little more effort climbing the closed lifts ? I'll take it! Risers also provide leverage as well as soem snow clearance.

[CIMA]

How many engineers would be convinced by that picture?
You just showed a special case of 3-pin bindings.
I hope you'll talk from a more general point of view of mechanism.

[MikeK]

Do you guys know what a free body diagram is?

Draw one for each mechanism. Then we'll get down to some engineering.

[CIMA]

We have seen a lot of fierce competitions of the sprint races in the World Cup of Nordic Ski where NNN/SNS bindings bore with extreme strains applied by top athletes.

[video][/video]

For most casual NNN/BC skiers, that fact is good enough to trust in the reliability of the system bindings.

[Raventele]

What ? People skating and Xc skiing at 5 -10 mph and less on groomed ez snow conditions is supposed to convince of what, especially when there's not a single parallel or tele turn ?? Again, I have a garage full of NNN and I find it inadequate for most XCD and certainly useless for a lot of conditions.. But it's great fun in its element.
And BTW, a lot of skate skiers are on SNS Pilot bindings

[Raventele]

How many engineers would be convinced by that picture?
You just showed a special case of 3-pin bindings.
I hope you'll talk from a more general point of view of mechanism.

My view is that you are presenting a distorted view of 3-pin..Like I say, any 3pin cable can be mounted on the same risers as a typical 3pin/Hardwire, where we are dealing with 7 longer screws , not 3 shorter

[CIMA]

As far as trail touring in the backcountry, I think that the majority still prefer pins. For downhills... pins. You can chalk it up to lack of skill, because that is really what it is... but there is no sense in using gear that exceeds your skill level. I'd rather take every advantage I can get from my gear and have fun, rather than struggle for years trying to master something that will give very little advantage.

You have a point here. For the same reason, many skiers gave up on telemark and turned to AT.
That is not limited to skiing. In every sport, people are won over by easier gear nowadays.

As for trail touring, I don't know whether pins are so popular in Europe also. On the brochures of major brands such as Fischer and Rossignol, NNN products account for large percentage of their BC products.

Do you guys know what a free body diagram is?

Draw one for each mechanism. Then we'll get down to some engineering.

I looked up the free body diagram, and I think that would be a nice tool to weigh the both mechanisms fairly.
I hope that analysis won't shun many followers of this topic.

You can argue the engineering merits of the two, or perhaps multiple systems (I don't consider a simple 3 pin the same as a plate and wire, or SNS the same as NNN) on paper, but it will never convince certain people to switch, myself included.

To my regret, the discussions here seem to be turning to something like theological arguments. Even if I presented here additional pictures or reports on the failures of 3-pin (or telemark) bindings or I proved merits or demerits by assistance of your engineering knowledge, adamant 3-pinners wouldn't change their minds until they're martyred. For them, the 3-pin is an icon of their religion. That makes me turn off delving into technical intricacy further.