Scott Excursions at the resort

[woodchuck]

Are there any significant drawbacks to tele-skill building (from a beginner level) at the resort on a really soft boot like the Excursion?

[teleclub]

I'm thinking it might be ideal for tele beginner learning on groomed. Assuming the ski chosen can be driven effectively by a light boot.

My prejudice is beginners should have the most equipment advantages $ allows. Experienced skiers can enjoy a range of equipment compromises and Toni Matt can schuss Tuckerman's on seven and a half foot hickories. But beginners need the equipment not to get in the way of learning.

Excursions have nice vertical stiffness to make it easy to edge skis. But they'll make it easy to sink into a turn without overcoming stiff bellows. That seems like a good set up for learning the feel.

Advanced alpine skiers learning tele for the first time might be an exception. It might be good for them to have a taller plastic boot to have the support they're familiar with in an alpine boot. And because they'll soon head for the steeper runs and speeds where taller boot support would be missed. Or maybe they'd benefit too from the feel they'd get from an Excursion, as least for learning.

[woodchuck]

Skis: https://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/black-d ... havoc-2009 in 176 length. I'm 5'10", 180#. G3 targa bindings, red cartridges.

It feels like a lot of ski to manage with a soft boot on piste, but what do I know, I'm beginner. I'm getting down the hill in one piece, but I find it pretty hard to tele, pretty easy to revert to sloppy/skidding alpine turns. My interest is skill building for BC missions, not being some resort god. Resort focused skiers have suggested I should get more boot for the resort.

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question, because used skis are cheap (as these were). Another question could be: "What would be a better beginner resort ski for a soft boot?"

[teleclub]

That does seem like a pretty wide ski for learning tele on groomed, and pretty wide to be driven by the Excursion. I won't say much more about that because I'm generally aware of how much wider skis people now think are standard for "ice" or any firm hard snow at resorts. My preferences and expectations seem out of date.

For alpiners learning tele on groomed I like to suggest using a ski familiar to them for groomed skiing.

If that doesn't apply, and if you're in the mood to experiment and mess with your set-up, you might try one or more of the following:
1) borrow/rent a pair of T2s or T1s and see if they make it easier to tele. If so then the issue was boot/ski mismatch.
2) mount up a pair of skis with a narrower waist--65mm to 70mm waist max. Anything decent you can find would work for this test, even a thrift store find you tune up. In the length you're skiing now or a little shorter. If that improves things then the issue was a mismatch between wide ski and learning skills on hard snow.
3) sign up for a tele lesson if a tele-instructor is available. Ask her/him about your set-up and what they suggest for the lesson. Lessons are great and whatever you're skiing they'll be watching and seeing what you need to do to get better.

[phoenix]

Telecub's advice is good. I think the Havoc's might not be a good match, though. They're a pretty stiff ski, which is not a good thing at all for a novice. That's most likely contributing with the difficulties you described.
My recommendation would be a softer flexing ski, and a bit narrower would work fine as well. Widest ski I've had to date are my old K2 Work Stinx; with an 88mm waist, they have been a very capable ski in all conditions. They also have a forgiving flex. Not sayin' you should get a pair of those (long discontinued), but they're a good example of what is probably the upper end of compatibility with the Excursions.
There are any number of options for skis that would work for you; how much you are willing to spend willl be a consideration. There's loads of used skis out there for very reasonable expense which will suit you just fine if you'd like to save a bunch of money.

[Verskis]

Hi Woodchuck, I'm in a similar situation as you are. Beginner trying to learn fluid telemark turns in the resort to better apply the tehcnique in the backcountry. I'm also using the Scott Excursion boots, with old Atomic Beta TM 24 skis (102-64-88 or something like that dimensions) and Rottefella Chili bindings.
I have also learnt that on mellow slopes I can do decent telemark turns all the way down, but on steeper slopes I often do a couple of telemarks and after that I have to resort to parallel turns because my speed is getting too high or I am getting out of balance or both. I think some of the problem is that I have not built enough strength and muscle memory to keep things in control when the slope gets steeper and the speed increases. Maybe stiffer boots would help, but I am also thinking that learning without "crutches" may result in better technique? Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'll try stiffer boots if I don't get much better after a couple of winters, but at the moment I'm pretty determined to learn with the stuff I have.
I'm also having some lessons after a couple of weeks, let's see what the instructors say there.

[Rodbelan]

Returning back to your initial question, the answer is yes... I do that often. But I match them (Garmont Excursion) with a narrow touring ski (K2 Sahale, 68-70 underfoot) and 3 pin cables. You will learn a lot I'm sure. I wouldn't consider the BD Havoc as a good choice though...

[woodchuck]

I wouldn't consider the BD Havoc as a good choice though...

Can you (or anyone) please expand upon that a little? What (as specifically as possible) would I notice as an improvement on a more beginner suitable ski? Does the criticism also apply off piste?

[Rodbelan]

It is just a matter of matching the right boot, to the right binding and to the right ski. Why do you consider Excursion? Most people would for its «lightweigtness» in the BC. If you pair that with a stiff binding (Hammerhead for exemple) and/or a wide or stiff ski, your boots won't have enough power to drive the thing... Excursion with 3 pins cables or Switchback (and the like) is a good choice. I would choose a lightweight BC ski with a 74-82 waist ski. Like this one:
https://www.corbetts.com/2015-dynastar- ... skis-only/
I must say that there is no universal rules here. Just a lot of personal preferences. But if you pair an Excursion with a stiff wide ski, there is a consensus: it is clearly a NO situation... But you will have to make your own experiment. Buy, try and sell back if necessary. You will find your way...

[Verskis]

Why do you consider Excursion? Most people would for its «lightweigtness» in the BC.

I don't know about Woodchuck's reasons, but for me the Excursion is a great boot for backountry skiing as it is soft enough to allow some XC skiing as well. In my neck of the woods, backcountry downhill skiing means skiing over rolling terrain to be able to reach some (short) sessionable downhills. I have not tried, but I think it would be quite miserable to ski something like Scarpa T1 on our terrain. Of course, at the resort the T1 could be better.
I have only tried a couple of 2 buckle boots, Crispi CXT and Scott Excursion, and out of these, the Excursion feels nicer, it flexes more naturally. CXT is a bit stiffer boot altogether, but especially the bellows feel very different, as they feel stiif at first, but after some bending they get softer. It feels like you need to push them to get them moving, but then you easily push "through" the flex.