3-pin limit

[merak]

Hi,

I'm skiing Voile 3 pin with Hagan Ultra 112-76-99 [163] no cables and Scarpa T4.

Latest weekend I tried some 35-40 degrees culoir with hard snow and it exhausted me(knees and muscles). Is it too much for this gear or am I lacking some technique? Am I asking too much from it? Should I go for a different type of skis?


https://www.google.ro/maps/place/45%C2% ... 76!5m1!1e4

to the north

[Rodbelan]

It is a matter of technique, I believe... In my own experience, everything I can do with burly boots and bindings I can with 3 pin, in normal conditions... It demands a better or more precise balance... Of course, in bad conditions, it will always be really demanding, no matter what type of equipment... You should also try to ski at the resort to fine point your technique, balance, etc. Actually you can carve with 3 pin bindings and T4 equivalent (I am using Excursion)... But do not worry too much. You can go down the slopes? You have fun? Then, it's fun... If you want to get more out of your skiing, take some private class with a great tele skier instead of investing on new material... There are still some skiers using lighter stuff than yours to do ski mountaineering. Nils Larsen, Steve Barnett, Eric Burr, Don Portman... Yeah, old school skiers, but I talk to them recently and they are still going strong — I wrote an article about the history of XCD to be published at the end of febuary... I'll probably have it translated for you guys. I'll let you know...

[paulk]

I would be very interested in reading your history of XCD. Please make it available to us!

[iBjorn]

I think your gear is just fine, but since you dont have much support from boots and bindings - your muscles will have to do a hard work. Good technique will help, but tele will always need more leg power than rando/at gear - especially with lower boots and 3-pins. As someone said, rando people rest their legs going downhill, telemark people rest their leg going uphill...

I do also love the simplicity and freedom of 3-pins and T4s, but my legs always burn with the heat and fire of a thousend hells when doing off-pist couliors. You will get used to it, and get gorilla legs as a side-effect. Keep up the good work, and thank you for the inspiring pictures!

[lowangle al]

I agree with Rodb, work on teqnique before making gear changes. We all skied those slope angles on less friendly gear than what you are on back in the day. I used to have problems with sore knees and tired legs 10 years ago but now I ski faster and make longer runs without a problem. There were two things I had to fix, one was over weighting my lead ski momentarily when I set the edge. It made for fun snappy turns but it killed my knees. The other problem was that I wasn't centered over my skis. I was centered well enough to ski OK but I had a tendancy to keep more weight on the rear ski which I believe caused leg fatigue. Another thing that will help with the tired legs is edge control. It is much less tiring to control a weighted ski that is carving than one that is skidding or flat.

You need to figure out what is causing the problems before you can fix them. Generally I would think that over weighting a ski in all or part of the turn is a culprit combined with edge control and letting the ski dictate how it wants to be turned. If you are constantly "driving" the ski it will take more energy than if you are "riding" the ski in a way produces less resistance and flex.

I don't know how much experience you have but these things will be easier to figure out on lower angle slopes. Send us a video so we can critique your teqnique.

[fisheater]

Beautiful terrain, and photos, thank you for sharing. I have no experience with the ski you mentioned, however I ski a Nordic ski of similar configuration at my small hills in Michigan where the maximum vertical relief is no more than 500 feet. The steepest runs are 30-35 degrees at most. I also ski a T-4 boot, but I have the Voile 3-pin Hardwire. Off resort for kick and glide I engage the heel piece to the heel riser and only engage the 3-pin toe piece on my boot. However, when skiing downhill utilizing the T-4 boot, I find I ski in much more control with the Hardwire engaged. I have difficulty keeping the ball of my foot in the proper position, without that cable assist. In soft snow away from ski lifts, I am capable of making turns at that type of pitch in leather boots, as they flex easier at the ball of the foot. I do not find it necessary to have that cable assist.
I really appreciate the skill required for your endeavors. I hope you be kind enough to share more of your adventures with us. I for one am impressed, and enjoy very much seeing such beautiful country, and reading the story behind the photos.
Cheers

[MikeK]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm with the Fish... what is the harm in going to a 3 pin hardwire and removing the wire if you want to ski pins only? Perhaps it will give you a little more endurance in steep, hard conditions?

[lowangle al]

Mike there is no doubt that that a 3pin HW will ski better with the heel throws on than off. I was out two weeks ago on vector bc and had the heel throws in my pack since it was generally easy terrain. The hardest hill we skied that day is a straight trail, a pipeline actually, almost 30 degrees and only 6 to 8 feet wide. I did a few runs without any problems before putting on the heel throws. I already knew that the heel throws would give more control, I wanted to find out if they would also make it more fun. After only a few turns it was obvious that more control equaled more fun. I found that having more control of my back ski enabled me to better control the lead ski and my turns were smoother and more stable.

It didn't sound like the OP had the option to put on a cable w\o changing bindings so I didn't mention it. It would help but is not required. I had seen my wife ski a 35 degree slope with leather boots, a voile 3 pin and Alpina cross terrains and made it look pretty easy. That was corn snow though, in other conditions we never would have attempted that slope on that gear. Looking at the terrain Merak has available I think a binding upgrade would be a good investment.

[dnt_upton]

I think the point is that it's possible to go with that gear and dial in your technique to make it happen, but in the snow conditions you describe, different gear such as the 3-pin Hardwire or Switchback X2, would make that far easier and possibly more fun. The skis are fine, though quite skinny by U.S. west coast standards. I also think the T2 Eco is a far superior boot to the T4 that the small weight gain is worth every ounce.

[lowangle al]

I think the point is that it's possible to go with that gear and dial in your technique to make it happen, but in the snow conditions you describe, different gear such as the 3-pin Hardwire or Switchback X2, would make that far easier and possibly more fun. The skis are fine, though quite skinny by U.S. west coast standards. I also think the T2 Eco is a far superior boot to the T4 that the small weight gain is worth every ounce.

I totally agree, and in big mountain terrain like that, where most everyone else has locked there heels down, you need every advantage you can get.