NTN: Rottefella Freeride versus 22 Designs Outlaw Review

[Johnny]

So last week I broke both slickpins on the Outlaws... And I lost them while skiing, I almost lost the flexing plates too. This part definitely needs to be redesigned. It's way too weak for any serious skiing. I had to fix it temporarily with a 4" nail bent at one end... The repair looks very punky... 22Designs gladly sent me replacement parts, but did not comment on the issue.

In the meantime, I was back to my good old Rotte Freerides for the last few days. Wow...! Gee I love the Freerides! It's a totally different experience than the Outlaws, I almost forgot how they skied. The flex is completely different. And I have to say that while I really enjoyed the feeling of the Outlaws since the beginning of the season, going back to the Freerides was a wonderful thing. (If only they wouldn't break so easily...)

The Outlaw is active from the very start, as soon as your raise the heel even just a bit. It's very smooth, but also very active. Stiffer than the Freerides I think, even if I ride all my Freerides on red tubes at 4. I would say the flex is smooth and constant. The Freeride, on the other hand, let you raise your heel very easily to initiate the turn. I find turn initiation MUCH easier on the Freeride. And activeness kicks in just when you need it, when your heel becomes engaged in the turn. Wow, I never really realized this prior to skiing the Outlaw. I would say the flex on the Freeride is progressive and adaptive.

Also, I find the lack of an adjustment plate on the Outlaw to be quite a retarded thing. Hey, it's 2017, even XC skis now have adjustable plates. Nobody can perfectly guess the best mounting point for a certain ski. A plate that can fine-tune the exact position on the binding like on the Freeride is A MUST.

All in all, they both have pros and cons, but I think my personal preference goes to the Freeride.
Ahem, I mean, the indestructible Bri7ized version of the Freerides...

[NTN Mike]

Hey, don't forget the Outlaws come from the folks that brought us the Hammerhead, the Vice and the Axl...
...

Even though they both are sold as releasable, and release is physically possible, I consider them non-releasable, especially if you like them very active...
...

The Hammerhead was brought to us by Russell Rainy. It used that sweet under foot cable design brought to us by Mike Miller ("cable Trak" https://www.google.com/patents/US5669622). BD's Pitbull, and skyhoy were failed attempts to utilize the concept. The vice and axl are wonderful bindings developed by 22D on the foundation these two folks created.

I have been on NTN since 06. Skied and owned every version of the freeride since then. Own freerides as well as outlaws. Ever since day 1, the bindings have released for me. I ski aggressively and enjoy a highly active binding, hence my bindings are set between 4 and 5 with red power tubes, blue power blocks, and the stiff spring on the outlaw. blah blah blah - bottom line is that they do release, and not just in a catastrophic sense.

IF $ wasn't in the calculations, having a set of Outlaws on THE favorite pair of tele skis (say on a pair DPS tour 106s)....

maybe the 106 will hold up better than the 99...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BByTsfuqFhS ... =tele_madi

The Freeride is the most durable binding now. The freedom is a close 2nd and the Outlaw is 3rd. The brakes on the outlaw need to be re-designed as they look and perform like the original freeride brakes (shitasticly) and make it very hard to step in. I'm looking forward to replacing my current outlaws with the X version. The improved step in will be greatly appreciated...

[colinstone]

Interesting review.
Never skied the Outlaws, hope to try this season.
I have Freeride on Kneissl Red Star RC 178cm piste skis which I use for piste instruction (receiving !), training and GS racing. And Freedom on Salomon Q98 180cm all mountain skis. Don't tour with the Freeride, so tour mode is taped down.
Due to age/weight etc, first thing I did is change blue springs in both for green springs so that the springs are set in the middle of the green range rather than at the bottom of the blue range. I've always understood that binding springs should operate in the middle of the range.
I have had the Rottefella release going round GS gates, but not on any other occasion.
I suppose as I don't know any different having only skied cables briefly at a trial clinic before getting NTN, so far I'm more than happy with the Rottefella items after 55 weeks.

[TimMoffett]

Here's a reply to a rather old post...

I have been a long time 22 Designs fan. Just gave up the Hammerhead with stiff springs to Outlaw X with only stiff spring (there's an optional inner spring that increases the tension).

I skied a friend's skis with Freerides and found them ridiculously active and progressive.
I was able to feel my toes connect to the ski and stand tall while ripping groomers, unlike the Outlaw..

I have no powder experience with either.

I really liked how the Freeride wound up the spring tension - and handled the bare stuff, but the Outlaw X really did well in scenarios where there was turnable snow.

How confusing. I have to have both, I guess...

[JeffXCD]

WHAT ARE RED STARS LIKE? dimensions?

Interesting review.
Never skied the Outlaws, hope to try this season.
I have Freeride on Kneissl Red Star RC 178cm piste skis which I use for piste instruction (receiving !), training and GS racing. And Freedom on Salomon Q98 180cm all mountain skis. Don't tour with the Freeride, so tour mode is taped down.
Due to age/weight etc, first thing I did is change blue springs in both for green springs so that the springs are set in the middle of the green range rather than at the bottom of the blue range. I've always understood that binding springs should operate in the middle of the range.
I have had the Rottefella release going round GS gates, but not on any other occasion.
I suppose as I don't know any different having only skied cables briefly at a trial clinic before getting NTN, so far I'm more than happy with the Rottefella items after 55 weeks.

[Montana St Alum]

WHAT ARE RED STARS LIKE? dimensions?

Interesting review.
Never skied the Outlaws, hope to try this season.
I have Freeride on Kneissl Red Star RC 178cm piste skis which I use for piste instruction (receiving !), training and GS racing. And Freedom on Salomon Q98 180cm all mountain skis. Don't tour with the Freeride, so tour mode is taped down.
Due to age/weight etc, first thing I did is change blue springs in both for green springs so that the springs are set in the middle of the green range rather than at the bottom of the blue range. I've always understood that binding springs should operate in the middle of the range.
I have had the Rottefella release going round GS gates, but not on any other occasion.
I suppose as I don't know any different having only skied cables briefly at a trial clinic before getting NTN, so far I'm more than happy with the Rottefella items after 55 weeks.

I believe skis of that era had waists around 68mm or so. Sidecut was generally less than 10mm, as I recall. I've skied both the Red Star and the White Star, but on alpine gear and decades ago. I liked the WS more, but none of these skis will ski as well as more modern designs.

[JeffXCD]

haha! what do you mean by "ski as well"? beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i'm getting reaquainted with my roots and i am liking it very much. ...more than the newer eras.

I have some 210 Rossi TRS. I used to ski 205's back in the day and 210's always felt too long and still do.

I'm considering some 200 Kneissl Red Stars. ...I had a pair of 200 Swallow TR's in '86 that I really liked in the bumps. And a pair of 210's that I didn't like.

Anyone have any idea how the Red Stars might compare to the Rossi's? I think the RS are single camber. Width seems similar. That's all I got! Are the RS superlight like the TRS? In the same ballpark? I don't know exactly what about the TRS made me love them but they were nice to me.

I'd love to buy another pair of TRS in 205 or 200! Anyone? I'll start another thread...

[Montana St Alum]

haha! what do you mean by "ski as well"? beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i'm getting reaquainted with my roots and i am liking it very much. ...more than the newer eras.

I have some 210 Rossi TRS. I used to ski 205's back in the day and 210's always felt too long and still do.

I'm considering some 200 Kneissl Red Stars. ...I had a pair of 200 Swallow TR's in '86 that I really liked in the bumps. And a pair of 210's that I didn't like.

Anyone have any idea how the Red Stars might compare to the Rossi's? I think the RS are single camber. Width seems similar. That's all I got! Are the RS superlight like the TRS? In the same ballpark? I don't know exactly what about the TRS made me love them but they were nice to me.

I'd love to buy another pair of TRS in 205 or 200! Anyone? I'll start another thread...

Part of the problem with old skis is that it's likely they've been "rode hard and put away wet" - a lot! The wood fibers degrade quite a bit, for one thing so they're not as good as they used to be. If you can somehow get them very lightly used, it would help, but that seems unlikely. Now, if I had my old 1970 Dynamic VR-17's in 207cm....!