Fischer E-109 vs. Asnes Ingstad

[MikeK]

First measurements in.

BP is exactly 1cm aft of CC.

Weight is on par with 195cm Eon, 1123g per ski.

[bgregoire]

Conspiracy theory? Maybe?

CALL THE XCD POLICE!

[MikeK]

Well I'll throw that out.

Skis are tricky beasts. Despite their feel, the measurements can show you what you didn't think is true.

ACTUALLY, the stiffness i.e. camber height vs. load is almost the same as the EON. The initial camber is almost exactly the same as the EON, which is a little more than the S78.

The wax pocket length stays just slightly longer than the S78 for the same load, I measured in 5lb increments. It's a slightly longer ski too, it measures 197cm CL. It goes from about 175cm to 86cm with 30lbs applied at boot center. I don't have anyone to measure with me but I can feel it's closed right up with half my weight on it. It's a soft ski.

I dunno Gareth, I mean yours is going to have longer length, but it's really, really close to both the Eon and S78. It actually might be a little more like the Eon despite having that 'feel' that it's a bit stiffer. Think it's the camber shape though.

I gotta go now, but I'll make some more measurements and post the data sometime soon.

[Cannatonic]

I like that RFP for leather boots! I'd like to send out my own RFP. 8,000 pairs, wow, that has to be way more boots than most companies sell in one year. Alico makes a simple military leather tele boot that's available on Ebay from England for cheap.

Mike we'll need a picture of those skis soon. How is the weight compared to the Sbounds? Should be about the same. I put the skis on the floor and tested stepping on them, the Breidabliks seemed to have a little more camber than SB 78, but much less than Gamme. They need to be skied to get a feel for it.

also I did the paper under the wax pocket test for fun - the paper is held tight under the Gamme 210's when I stand on the skis. Not sure what that means! need to ski them.

[bgregoire]

I like that RFP for leather boots! I'd like to send out my own RFP. 8,000 pairs, wow, that has to be way more boots than most companies sell in one year. Alico makes a simple military leather tele boot that's available on Ebay from England for cheap.

Yeah, they call 'em military but they would not last 3 days camping with them. You need something with a removable liner for extended stay outdoors. The Huskys DO that.

also I did the paper under the wax pocket test for fun - the paper is held tight under the Gamme 210's when I stand on the skis. Not sure what that means!

It most probably means you floor is crooked!

[MikeK]

Can, S bounds are heavier. I weighed all 4 skis I have, all are within a few grams.

1211g for the S Bound 199
1123g for both the Eon 195 and Ingstad 200

This is average per ski.

Oddly enough the average of the both the Eon and Ingstads I have was the exact same to the gram.

The difference in camber height I measure between the S Bound and the Ingstad is only 2mm. It's not much. I'm sure they vary a bit as well, all skis do.'

[MikeK]

[Woodserson]

I actually have my suspicions based on Fischers trends that they copied this ski for their S Bounds. It could also be the other way around, but it's unlikely. Also I think just tweaked the dimensions of the profile a bit to get two ski designs out of it, the 78 and the 88. Conspiracy theory? Maybe?

Nah, I'd say a little covergent evolution going on. The 78 and 88 and 98 have pretty much been around forever in previous incarnations as the Outtabound, Boundless, etc. There are some basic ski dimensions and ratios that just work, and are repeated throughout the industry. 127-97-117, for instance, is a popular ski dimension, plus/minus a few mm here and there. I've had two skis, from two different manufacturers and factories, with these dimensions, and it's just a pleasant easy turning dimension. The 20mm sidecut for light tele touring skis (S-88) is in almost every line-up as well, etc. Is there borrowing? Sure. But there's only so many combos that are going to work for a given application.

The 88 is definitely not the 78. I own and have skied both. Very different. Additionally, I've had all 3 of my S-Bound skis up on my flex-test table, and they are all flexing different from each other.

Now the EZ-Skin.... there's another story.

[MikeK]

I'm sure I could tell the difference if I put on the S78 or the Eon, but it's not huge. The grip would give it away more than anything else.

I never said the S88 and S78 were the same ski. Dimensions of sidecut are different enough but the Ingstad is much, much closer to the Eon and the S78. It actually has that thing that lilcliffy hates about the S Bound 98, the flared tail!

In reality, I think that will have a very minimal impact for how use and feel skis. I think they'll probably carve a bit more than the others on harder snow, or in theory should. I don't think it's enough that it would bother me for tracking.

To me almost everything beyond the general sidecut categories is how the ski flexes. These skis are all very, very, very similar. I have the data to prove it. If I had better measurement equipment I could perhaps find some minor details.

I twist the tips and tails in torsion to feel how stiff they are, I hand flex the tip to see how compliant it is. I sight the skis, I look at the deflected shape of the camber and the initial camber height. I note how the skis feel when pushed base to base. All these things give me a qualitative feel...

Again I'll be quite honest, there isn't much difference between the Fischer, the Eon and Asnes. To my feel, the Asnes feels more like the Fischer. It's camber shape, it's tip and tail flex feel almost the same.

From my measurements, which I want to do again, the Ingstad actually is almost identical to the Eon for the first part of it's flex, then it stiffens to about the same point all these skis do. It retains the longest wax pocket though despite being at a very low camber height. It is so close to the Fischer in that respect though I'd wonder if it is within normal manufacturing variation.

I'm 99% sure I know how these skis will feel on the snow. That extra tail width might change it a tiny bit, but when you actually hold the skis back to back and see how small of an actual difference it is in relation to the rest of the ski dimensions, I bet it's going to be pretty minor.

The thing is, the Eon and S78 both ski great. They both turn pretty well. They are both great skis. I wrote in my final review the biggest difference to me is the scale grip. That's the biggest point of difference.

For the Asnes it's a wax base and skinlock. If Fischer got their heads out of their ass and made S78s in full lengths with wax base and easy skin it'd probably be a coin flip which one you'd pick.

Also, there's the nagging little fact that it's a lighter ski than the S78 with thicker edges, a full wood core and a little more length and width. To me that says something. It's perhaps a better engineered ski overall.

The one engineering detail I like that the Fischer S78 has: BP is almost exactly on CC (as close as I can measure with a tape). That is not the case for the Eon and not the case for the Asnes. Practically, what does it do?

[bgregoire]

Plus....its GRAY man!