Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Post everything and anything here about human-powered water sports.

I have a zillion canoe trip pics. My wife just bought a really nice new camera too, so hopefully she'll get some good
shots.

Get one man... it might be a little slow for your pace, but there's always whitewater to look for

Imagine having this beach to yourself... no insects.

No insects?!? WHERE?!?! In the daks?!?

Hey what about those inflatable canoes... Bullshit?

Usually on the water there are no insects. The exception is stable flies, which bite your ankles and hurt like heck. It's easy to keep them at bay though.

Oh - inflatables... no go for me. Good for those who want to hike out to a mud puddle and float around.

If you actually want to travel on the water, stiffer the hull, the better. Tougher the better for whitewater. Royalex has long been the choice for many who want flatwater speed with whitewater durability. You really want float bags for anything more than some riffles. Royalex is getting expensive because it's no longer being made.

Some glass boats are super tough too. Depends on the laminate, the type of glass used, etc. I had one but it was kind of heavy. Bounced it off of rocks on river trips, no issues. I didn't like carrying it though.

Kevlar is super tough, but the resin tends to be brittle. If you take a good enough shot you'll break those bonds and be left with floppy piece of fabric. The fabric itself is damn near indestructible but it needs the resin to give it compressive strength (think of trying to float on a sheet of canvas or leather without a frame, and that's what you have when Kelvar fails). My flatwater solo boat is Kevlar. It's fairly light, flexible where it needs to be, and tough. The hull itself is so low and sleek it's not good for quick maneuvers on whitewater. It can handle river trips but it's most at home on medium sized lakes and ponds. It can handle a fair deal of chop, but it's strength is not catching wind (low profile) and being long and narrow which = glide (it's like a long xc ski for the water). There are some mild whitewater Kevlar boats, but most serious WW boats are something heavier and tougher. Weight is not usually as much a concern for WW.

Carbon/Kevlar - adds a little more stiffness to the Kelvar and resin composite but also some brittleness. My newest boat is this cabon/Kevlar tweed. It's kind of flexy - I think it will handle some minor brushes with rocks and running beaver dams. It's stiff enough to be fast on big water. It's also lighter than a pure Kevlar boat.

Carbon - lightest, stiffest boats available. Some are fairly tough, some are pretty weak, all are pretty expensive. These are more for the real weight weenies and racers. A good hard shot to a rock or log could crack the boat... not what you want on a long trip.

There's other various plastic hulls and then wood/canvas, aluminum, cedar strip, etc...

The wood is where it's at, it's just either DIY or heavy. A good cedar strip boat with a glass skin coat can look the best, be very durable, and be quite light. They are very labor intensive to build, so you don't see them much except for plugs for molds (how the boats are developed) or by DIY guys. Wood/canvas is the traditional boat, but it's HEAVY! Apparently they are super quiet, glide through the water nice, plenty tough, and easy to repair if you are a handy woodbutcher.

There's also moose skin canoes. They built one up here on Drummond Island last year at the Great Lakes Traditional Arts Gathering:

I wonder if it smells like a wet dog when it's on the water...

Yup and birch bark.

Also skin on frame boats which are really light:

http://www.tidewatersmallcraft.com/wp-c ... 24x768.jpg


All of those space frame types are super fragile... well maybe the moose skin is a bit more durable.

And of course, like skis, what is best for whitewater is not necessarily best for flatwater... and the bigger the water, the less flat it can become.

connyro wrote:There's also moose skin canoes

I should have added the caveat that the wood/canvas was the traditional 'white man' boat - native Americans had lots of different canoe/kayak boat constructions.

MikeK wrote: I should have added the caveat that the wood/canvas was the traditional 'white man' boat - native Americans had lots of different canoe/kayak boat constructions.

Haha. Well, I was in the most 'white man' boat imaginable last weekend on the Au Train river: fully plastic with bigseats complete with beer holders. It was heavy but comfortable and fairly maneuverable and seemed pretty durable. Not exactly my cup-o-tea, but fun was had.

I've seen those quite a bit. Not a bad fishing platform.

Mad River used to make some really excellent boats... now I'm not so sure.

Hey, thanks for that nice canoe primer...! You should start the Canoe Talk thread... ; )

I'm curious to see how you guys are carrying the thing on the car... Do you need a special rack or you just strap it on the top...?

There's something appealing to me about inflatables... The fact that you can just put it on your backpack and go anywhere, hike any mountain with a secret pond, without even using the car... That sounds pretty cool to me... Even if it will never be like the real thing... (It's more like people skiing with snowblades...)

I have to say I'm not crazy about Primus either... But I must admit a night with the band must be awesome...!

I have quite the contraption to carry mine, but you don't need something that fancy. I started off with just some foam blocks and straps.

Yeah, inflatables are good if you want to go to really remote places and just hop in the water and float around. Lots of BC anglers use float tubes for remote ponds just because it's easier to carry and a more stable platform than a canoe.

Really what a lot of people use in the Adirondacks are these guys:

http://www.hornbeckboats.com/boats_trad_10.php

Pack Canoes. They are so light you can just throw them on your pack and pretty much go anywhere. You still have a large object to deal with in the woods, which can make maneuvering harder, but it's not that bad.

Thing I don't like you sit on the bottom and it's hard to do anything but double blade them. I prefer sitting high or kneeling and using a single blade stick. There are ones that can be mounted with pedestal seats and are narrow enough to single blade.

http://www.placidboatworks.com/spitfire13.html

Nice boats, but really expensive and I'm kind of pushing the limits of efficient weight for those. I'm better off with what I have. It's faster and more stable for my size with gear.

I have a Peregrine:
http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/falcon-series.html

I like my boat because I can sit or kneel depending on what I feel like, or what the conditions dictate. It's also ridiculously effortless to paddle.

Oh... and yeah Johnny, I kind of figured you didn't like Primus. They are one of my favorite bands (second only to LVEAM ). I don't go to see much music anymore but I've seen them a 2x in the last few years and they were awesome both times.