Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Hey All,

Looking for some input and advice on getting the asnes rabb 68 over the voile objective bc. Recently learned about the Xplore binding and Alfa Free and I'm pretty darn interested.

Spent the last few weeks searching through the forum and compiling the info I've been looking for, along with watching all of Tom M's youtube videos on the xplore binding. (Huge thanks to him) Yet I haven't found specific answer to a couple of my questions.

Little background, over the past three seasons I made the switch to telemark after years snowboarding prior. Between the gear I've bought, been gifted and get loaned out I'm very fortunate to be running both 75mm (BD 01 & 02 w/cripsi CXR) and NTN (Outlaws & Lynx w/ TXpros) for downhill set ups. What I grab is pretty much decided by if I'm staying in the resort, doing a little side country or going touring. I've also spent a decent amount of time on groomed classic nordic track with some waxless scaled XC twigs but i'm unknowledgable in the ways of waxing and intricacies of XC ski bases.

Over the past 4 years, however, I've realized that with how inconsistent our snow pack is with both avalanche danger and coverage I've been staying on mostly below 30°ish pitches when getting some quick tours in, outside of when I'm with a solid group of people knowledgable in snow science. The full plastic ntn and 75mm have really began to feel like overkill with those mellow descents.

Enter the Xplore and Alfa Free combo.

Uses cases are downhill XCD with 30°ish degree climbs, flatish hikes on ungroomed and unbroken forest service roads for day sight seeing, and trips on roads into cabins and yurts usually pulling a sled behind. Mostly just want a nice lighter and softer set up to walk up roads or hills and ski down the mellow ridge lines and tree glades.

Questions:
Wondering if any of you have been able to the ski the both the rabb 68 and voile objective and is the extra cost of the voile bringing any benefit besides the apparent for downhill?
I realize that I'll be giving up the float that voile offers but the shorter turn radius, better glide, x skin option and lower cost of the rabb really is got me interest. Probably will end up grabbing the voile endeavor bc during summer 2024 and quiver killing it for both lynx and xplore.

Is the asnes X skin worth it or should I just spring for a Pomoca Race Pro 2.0?

The Rabb 68 has a wax pocket. What am I suppose to do interms of that? Can anyone provide a youtube link and that explains the maintance, prep and wax options to keep that working for me?

Thanks in advance. Have really enjoyed and appreciated the resources your forum has provided.

First, a primer on how wax works…

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6058

Really important to know how wax works because it prevents you from falling prey to all kinds of nonsense found on the internet.

The Swix web site has short videos on waxing. What works for XC works for BC and works for DH. Grip wax doesn’t apply to DH, but the glide applications are the same. Structure is unique to XC.

The three requirements for waxing are (1) a good iron… digital temperature control is a plus; (2) a full set of brushes… nylon and brass; (3) practice… all the videos out there skip all kinds of tricks one acquires when they wax a lot (family, friends ski prep… almost daily sessions in changing conditions).

Second, thoughts on skis…

Easy to obsess over one ski or another. Sure, they all have their peculiarities but these become part of the spice when you bond with your skis. Local conditions and style have a greater influence than minor variations in side cut, width etc. as long as you’re not trying to turn an XC racing ski into a BC powder ski.

Third… skins.

Probably a better conversation to be had on the cost benefit of mohair (glide) versus nylon (durability) than brands. But fit is extremely important too. Colltex, Pomoca are both quality brands so choosing one name brand over the other is more a matter of habit and preference. Again, the real issues are material choice and fit. One is an issue of skier requirement (if you merely need an “assist”, nylon is less expensive… best performance is mohair). The other comes down to selecting skins designed for your exact ski (yes, generic fit skins exist… they work best when they are used for long climbs and removed before “flight”. But on yo-yos, a custom fit is hard to beat.

TeleDino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:30 am

The Rabb 68 has a wax pocket. What am I suppose to do interms of that? Can anyone provide a youtube link and that explains the maintance, prep and wax options to keep that working for me?

To get started with waxing, you should have a tin of blue wax, a cork, and half length, 30-45 mm wide mohair skins.

You can ski with blue wax almost always, when you have minus (C) degrees. When you have zero ’C or plus degrees, you put the skins on top of the wax.

Spread 3-4 thin layers of wax, and apply cork until a wax layer becomes mainly invisible before applying each new layer.

Additionally, when wax gets dirty, you will need wax remover and a rag or toilet paper. I think you can use lamp oil for removing wax, too. For blue wax, you will not need an iron because it is quite soft even without heating.

The above instructioms are for grip waxing the center areas of your skis. If you want to glide wax, it works the same as with snowboards. Yet do not apply glide wax to the grip wax area.

For much of last year I was using a Objective BC(OBC) and a Falketind 62 with Xplore and Alfa Free. The FT62X and Rabb are very similar so I can address some of what you are asking.

For one thing, the Objective and FT/Rabb are not really similar. The dimensions are not that different between the OBC and the Rabb but the rocker/camber profile is completely different. The FT/Rabb have a lot of camber and, as you note, have a small wax pocket. I can tell you that wax works really well in the FT under the right conditions. But, as a result of all that camber the skis don't have much in common. It takes a lot more input to get the FT to turn than with the OBC. The tradeoff is that the OBC doesn't really glide. You might call it kick and slide. I actually think all that camber makes the OBC easier to get on edge with Xplore than the FT62 with Xplore. The OBC is very flickable. Just think about turning and you're turning- which I've also heard about the Rabb. I can' t comment on the Rabb in this case but I bet you're going to have to work a little harder with all that camber. @fisheater uses this setup so maybe he can comment.

The scales on the OBC work extremely well. They work better than the FT with a 54mm moehair Xskin. I hear nylon is grippier but then you lose the glide. I wound up building a full-length set of skins for the FT if I was going to do anything steeper than 15 degrees or so. They'll do more than that but it's a lot of work. The camber doesn't help you here either. The OBC just goes up. I built a full set of skins for this ski, too, but you can't really expect scales to hold over 25 or 30 degrees. They'll do it but, again, with all the slipping it just becomes a lot of work.

I felt Xplore was a great compromise for both skis. I'm not after steep stuff and Xplore just tours so well. It's light and articulated. The Alfa Free is stiff but it has some bellows and allows a decent kick and glide even with the BOAs synched down. Putting in the stiff flexor absolutely helped me going down hill but a lot of times I didn't bother and did fine. I am going to put inserts into my FT62 so I can run some lightweight 75mm plastic boots. I think they would really turn the FT62 into a pretty nice carver which I have trouble doing with the Xplore. Some of the more experienced guys around here can probably do a lot better. I think they'd be nice on the OBC as well and I may do it, though it will void my warranty. I do know that the Alfa Free worked a lot better on these skis than the Alpina Alaska. I have that boot so, of course I tried it. But it didn't make any sense though there may be a use case for it somewhere in there. I use them on my Gamme 54 where they are great and the Free is shite.

As far as float, honestly, the difference seemed minimal. The OBC is wider but my FT62 is longer so not a very meaningful comparison. The OBC did better on fresh snow if only because it doesn't break crust very well. The FT breaks crust, even a thin crust, a lot better, and it isn't a great ski for that! In some ways, because of that, the FT is probably a more versatile ski. But it snows enough around here that I don't have to get out in poor snow conditions.

In the end I had different use cases for the FT and OBC. If I was going to be doing laps or rolling terrain I put on the OBC. It's so nice to transition from down to up with those scales. You just go up! Then you go down. Then you go up. It's like a mountain bike. If I was going into canyons to ski up and then ski down I would take the FT62. You put on the skins and go up. At the top you take off the skins and go down. I will note the Xskins definitely make the turning mushier and less precise but the FT are for sure faster than the OBC. The scales and more rockered profile are slower going down. Because of where I was going I wound up using the OBC more than the Falketind but so much of that had a lot more to do with where I was going than which ski I 'liked' better.

tkarhu wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:20 am

TeleDino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:30 am

The Rabb 68 has a wax pocket. What am I suppose to do interms of that? Can anyone provide a youtube link and that explains the maintance, prep and wax options to keep that working for me?

To get started with waxing, you should have a tin of blue wax, a cork, and half length, 30-45 mm wide mohair skins.

You can ski with blue wax almost always, when you have minus (C) degrees. When you have zero ’C or plus degrees, you put the skins on top of the wax.

Spread 3-4 thin layers of wax, and apply cork until a wax layer becomes mainly invisible before applying each new layer.

Additionally, when wax gets dirty, you will need wax remover and a rag or toilet paper. I think you can use lamp oil for removing wax, too. For blue wax, you will not need an iron because it is quite soft even without heating.

The above instructioms are for grip waxing the center areas of your skis. If you want to glide wax, it works the same as with snowboards. Yet do not apply glide wax to the grip wax area.

Ah, welcome to the wonderful work of gripwax!

Here's a good guide to waxing from this very forum: https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2187

Just to contradict @tkarhu here (with apologies!), the Swix Blue (V30) is a bit too hard for 0°C/ 32°F – you won't get any grip until you're a good few degrees below freezing. On older snow, Swix Blue is only useful when it's -5° or something.

Swix Blue Extra (V40) is a bit more versatile, but again, on consolidated snow you'll wish you had something softer unless it's like -4°C.

The temperature ranges on the tins are pretty spot on. If you can't make your mind up which one to use, it's always a good idea to go for the harder wax first and see if it works. Just to prevent icing and all general annoyance. If you have no grip, just wax forward of your wax pocket a bit before you go colder.

You can stick the Åsnes skins on over the wax, but only if it's Blue or harder than Blue.

I always use a scraper before I get out the base cleaner, and usually just smooth out what I have with a cork before putting something new on top. In practice, putting new wax on top of old wax is completely usual and fine. Give a scrape if it's necessary (like, if you have really too much wax on already, or you're getting too much ice collecting down there). Otherwise smooth out what's on your base already with a cork and then stick new stuff on top.

The XSkins are really great, and Åsnes use the Pomoca Race Pro 2.0 blend on some of them. I kind of suspect you'd be using the tip attachments rather than the short skins on these skis – just to state the obvious, the short skins are kind of fantastic, but even with an uncut Xskin, your friends with full-length skins will be skinning up the hill while you're doing kick turns and long traversey zigzags!

Edit: these skis are built for the Access skins, not the 'usual' XSkins. The Access skins are meant to be pretty awesome but I've never used them.

Musk Ox wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:03 pm

Here's a good guide to waxing from this very forum: https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2187

Ruh-roh... get ready for 10 pages of debate about polar kick wax used over the length of the ski.

Musk Ox wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:03 pm

Just to contradict @tkarhu here (with apologies!), the Swix Blue (V30) is a bit too hard for 0°C/ 32°F – you won't get any grip until you're a good few degrees below freezing. On older snow, Swix Blue is only useful when it's -5° or something.

Swix Blue Extra (V40) is a bit more versatile, but again, on consolidated snow you'll wish you had something softer unless it's like -4°C.

The temperature ranges on the tins are pretty spot on. If you can't make your mind up which one to use, it's always a good idea to go for the harder wax first and see if it works. Just to prevent icing and all general annoyance. If you have no grip, just wax forward of your wax pocket a bit before you go colder.

You can stick the Åsnes skins on over the wax, but only if it's Blue or harder than Blue.

Nice to hear about the Swix ble waxes! I have used Swix blue (or was it Rex blue, a harder blue anyway) and Rex Blue Special lately. Rex Blue Special is rated -1 to -4 ’C so can use a blue until 0’ C.

@Musk Ox Does ”Blue or harder than blue” mean a hard blue in your opinion? My x-skin bases have felt a bit messy lately, but still have worked alright after putting Rex Biue Special on top of them regularly.

Musk Ox wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:03 pm

I always use a scraper before I get out the base cleaner, and usually just smooth out what I have with a cork before putting something new on top.

Yes, I forgot the scraper. And layering waxes just expands their range of use, it should work well normally.

Musk Ox wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:03 pm

Edit: these skis are built for the Access skins, not the 'usual' XSkins. The Access skins are meant to be pretty awesome but I've never used them.

I think Rabb has both x-skin and access skin (top and tail) connectors.

My earlier advice on skins was a little out of context for OP. For steeper than 15 degrees you might need heavier skins, like @johnskepler mentioned. I do not climb that steep slopes, where I live and ski.

I can offer some input here. I bought Rabb 68s at the beginning of last season, along with Xplore bindings and Alaska XP boots. These are my first BC skis, but I'm a lifetime skate skier and I'm very comfortable with wax.

Live and ski in Colorado. I started out applying kick wax and using the 58mm X-skins for steeper terrain, but after a few outings I realized the kick wax was holding me back on mild downhills. So I ditched the kick wax and use the skins only to provide grip. The 58mm X-skins work fine for me on slopes up to 15%, and I also have a set that are narrower that I have trimmed shorter for flatter terrain. I'm pleased with the kick and glid I get with both sets of X-skins. I tend to ski areas that don't require taking the X-skins on/off multiple times per day, so this system works well for me. Eventually built up some full-length skins from a Pomona kit for uphilling at resorts.

I'd encourage you to think of the X-skins as an adjustable waxless system. The wax pocket serves to lift/unweight the skin and provide decent kick and glide.

The Alaska XP is great all-around boot, but after using the lifts a few times last year I started to wonder if I would be better off with the extra support of the Alfa Frees on some days, so I added those this year with REI put them on sale. Looking forward to trying them this year. I'm heading to Steamboat for a long weekend in early December so hoping for some decent early snow.

Happy to answer any specific questions.

I have no experience with the Objective- I do have experience with the wider Vector- that has the same profile in a wider package-

For those that have both- if the Falketind 62X has more camber than the Objective- than the Obejctive must have extremely low camber...
I have both the Falketind 62 Xplore (FTX) as well as the current Rabb 68 (R68)-
I would not describe either the FT62X or the R68 as being significantly cambered skis- at least from a Nordic touring perspective- they are both single-cambered underfoot from my perspective...

I don't see a true "wax pocket" on the FT62X or the R68...

From a Nordic touring perspective- the FT62X and the R68 both have single, downhill-oriented camber.
Neither of these skis offer the stiff resistance underfoot of a more XC-oriented ski (e.g Asnes Ingstad (which I also have)- 62mm underfoot like the FT62X).

.........
As far as the Rabb 68 vs the Objective BC-

the Objective BC is siginificantly wider than the Rabb 68
the Objective BC has scales for moderate traction-
the Rabb 68 has a kicker skin insert-

Sorry to have to correct the Master of Musk-
the Rabb 68 has Asnes' standard X-skin/Skinlock insert- same as their fjellskis- not the wider Access Skin insert.
.............
Do you want/need the width of the Objective?
If so- is your boot enough for the wider Objective in your personal use context?

If you do consider the Objective for its width- why? Is it for deep soft snow? If so- then perhaps you shoud be considering an even wider and more "powder oriented" ski than the Objective?

If you don't need the width of the Objective-

a boot in the class of the Alfa Free is more than enough to drive the Rabb 68- even on difficult snow.
that being said- the Rabb 68 is best on soft snow and in such conditions I do not need a boot as stiff as the Free...

I just did a quick measure of my FT62 and Objective. The FT has 1/2” of camber underfoot while the Objective has 1/4”. The Objective has a lot more early rise rocker but the FT has a much steeper and pronounced tip. The contact points of the FT are closer to the ski tips than the Objective. From experience the Objective turns much easier while the FT tours better. I tried to get a picture but I was rushing and it was crap but the camber on the FT is, visually, much more apparent then the Obj and it ‘feel’s much stiffer.