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Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:11 am
by Lhartley
Been scouting new xcd terrain lately and wondering what people's personal policy and different government policy applies. I've been mostly looking at cut blocks on crown Land in wild land areas in Alberta.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:57 am
by Lhartley
More specifically, if I'm bringing tools out to maintain sactioned and unsanctioned trails in my area, whats overkill? The areas I'm looking at are already logged areas (poorly), they leave piles of slash everywhere and random logs. Harvesting wood in those area is already allowed and I would not fell live or freestanding trees. I feel like there should be no problem packing in a chainsaw and lightly clearing some runs while still leaving the area in a similar state, just a more skiable one. Tools I'll use are felco hand pruners, silky zubat saw, and Husqvarna 235
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:15 am
by spopepro
I think this isn’t something that can be answered from a distance. Working in legal and moral grey areas really requires local knowledge and context.
For example, where I’m local there’s a large area that is popular for mountain biking… but biking is not legal anywhere in the area. But there’s local context of what’s tacitly approved, ok with a very low profile and impact, and super actually illegal don’t go there areas due to sensitive habitat and research studies. None of this is on any map.
All this is to say, try and find some user consensus of locals. You don’t need to find everyone, but having at least a few folks who know the area and are out there from time to time to check yourself is the right thing to do.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:27 pm
by Manney
Talk to local government. Suggest framing it under forest management or bush fire abatement etc… along with a bit of recreational use. Better if you “represent” a group. Then it’s not just some guy… but a community of interest.
The big issue will be things like couloirs. Great for skiing… take all the brush and trees out and it becomes a soil erosion nightmare.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:29 pm
by JohnSKepler
Here in Northern Utah we have a lot of National Forest, BLM, and even Wilderness area. I do some sanctioned trail maintenance as a Forest Service volunteer and have been to some training. I'm no expert but I do know that one of our jobs as trail maintenance workers is to close off unsanctioned trails.
However, in the winter, especially as the snow gets deeper, established trails get buried and gaps in the trees open everywhere. While the roads are easy to see, the 'trails' tend to wander from their actual location throughout the snow season and if you're willing to tour a bit you can usually find some untracked powder on the 'new' trails. This might not be as practical in the East where there is more rain and consequently more trees, but here in the West where forests are not as dense, and when snow covers the scrub, the definition of the 'trail' kind of blurs.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:34 pm
by Lhartley
JohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:29 pm
Here in Northern Utah we have a lot of National Forest, BLM, and even Wilderness area. I do some sanctioned trail maintenance as a Forest Service volunteer and have been to some training. I'm no expert but I do know that one of our jobs as trail maintenance workers is to close off unsanctioned trails.
However, in the winter, especially as the snow gets deeper, established trails get buried and gaps in the trees open everywhere. While the roads are easy to see, the 'trails' tend to wander from their actual location throughout the snow season and if you're willing to tour a bit you can usually find some untracked powder on the 'new' trails. This might not be as practical in the East where there is more rain and consequently more trees, but here in the West where forests are not as dense, and when snow covers the scrub, the definition of the 'trail' kind of blurs.
The zone I'm looking at already has an established sanctioned trail that traverses low along a ridge that has been logged several times with varying degree of recovering cutblocks. Animal trails go up and down throughout the logged (meadows), so I don't necessarily need to cut trails. I'm mainly concerned with "cleaning" slash left by commercial logging operations
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:36 pm
by Manney
Sounds like reducing forest fuel load. Sell it that way if your state is affected by fires.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:40 pm
by JohnSKepler
Lhartley wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:34 pm
JohnSKepler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:29 pm
Here in Northern Utah we have a lot of National Forest, BLM, and even Wilderness area. I do some sanctioned trail maintenance as a Forest Service volunteer and have been to some training. I'm no expert but I do know that one of our jobs as trail maintenance workers is to close off unsanctioned trails.
However, in the winter, especially as the snow gets deeper, established trails get buried and gaps in the trees open everywhere. While the roads are easy to see, the 'trails' tend to wander from their actual location throughout the snow season and if you're willing to tour a bit you can usually find some untracked powder on the 'new' trails. This might not be as practical in the East where there is more rain and consequently more trees, but here in the West where forests are not as dense, and when snow covers the scrub, the definition of the 'trail' kind of blurs.
The zone I'm looking at already has an established sanctioned trail that traverses low along a ridge that has been logged several times with varying degree of recovering cutblocks. Animal trails go up and down throughout the logged (meadows), so I don't necessarily need to cut trails. I'm mainly concerned with "cleaning" slash left by commercial logging operations
I addressed legality and policy (not the same thing). I didn't address the morality (which may differ
significantly from legality and policy.) I have no moral problem with what you're doing and have done it myself. Someone else might try to shut it down if they notice it. These rules in a logged, or similarly destroyed, zone remind me of the "Keep Off The Dunes!" signs beside the enormous developments on the beach that obliterated everything around them. Personally I tend to follow
Law as opposed to rules.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:52 pm
by Capercaillie
The law:
https://open.alberta.ca/publications/t06p2
When you say "crown Land in wild land areas," are you talking about a PLUZ, or an actual Wildland Provincial Park?
https://albertaparks.ca/albertaparksca/ ... tions/#wpp
And let's face it, this is Alberta. Your biggest problem is going to be making the trails impassable enough to keep out the bozos on quads and snowmobiles.
Re: Legality/morality of trail building and modification
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:08 pm
by Lhartley
It's a PLUZ zone that borders an OHV zone. It's restricted to hiking/mtb/equestrian, but with it being close to the ohv zone they do poach it occasionally but I'm not worried about it. I think I'll contact Kananaskis and just ask them, as there has recently been an mtb trail built across the road. It can't hurt to ask. This zone doesn't get a ton of supportive snow or anything, it's just something close to where I live and convenient for me.
Shouldn't have used the term "wildland". It's not that