Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Objective and Scope. This is a three-part (and possibly growing) master list of current operational military and paramilitary skis. Each part will be limited to 9-10 skis with accompanying photos. Most will show “troops on skis” during exercises. Others will show current military stockpiles of skis widely, but incorrectly, believed to be taken out of operational inventories.

Methodology. The list is based on *evidence* (photos, official press releases and other documentary data) of skis used by today’s military/paramilitary forces. To qualify as operational, the skis must first be observed in use by uniformed military personnel. Additional weight given to personnel carrying military patterned weapons, skis observed in use by multiple members etc. Credibility questioned when gear is observed in use on commercial ski hills, such as might occur during a unit recreational or public relations event. To qualify as current, evidence of use in the past 3-4 years is required. A much broader timeframe is acceptable for skis in inventory because, as we see in the war in Ukraine, mothballed equipment thought to be obsolete gets pressed back into service by militaries when an urgent need arises.

Can be read in conjunction with the list of military ski training centres here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6034&sid=b05dabf6b3 ... 97f1cf59fc

Challenges. In many cases, identifying the actual skis involves the analysis of multiple photos… a ski tip here, half a top sheet there. Rarely do you find a “gotcha” shot with a clearly branded ski, used by a clearly identified force, in a specific place on a specific day in a high enough resolution to read all the details written on the ski. In fact, the ski is always the toughest thing to identify. Even things that seem easy aren’t… the ski may be visually similar but is it the 68mm or 80mm version? Tough call when the photos of the “ski in action” is sharply angled with no comparative reference, which then requires examination of things like minor variations in tip shape or how the binding sits on the ski to determine the actual size.

Limitations. No claims of infallibility. Eager to amend if conclusive evidence contrary to the data listed here is provided… or if further digging reveals erroneous information. That said, the bar is set fairly high. Say-so or ambiguous images or sources may not result in action by the OP. This policy is intended to minimize the risk of compound errors infiltrating this list.

Part 1 of 3

Järvinen (NFI)
200-250 cm (media)
xx/69/xx (media). This is a reverse side cut ski, a few mm wider in the middle and tapering at the tip and tail. Minor production variances affecting width, so 69mm should be considered a nominal value.
Edging - No, edgeless (obs)
Base - Waxless (obs)
Color - White, black ptex bases
Markings - Stylized “J” on tip with an animal skin (?) logo, length and lot/serial number printed on side wall of ski
Construction - Wood laminate. Classic XC plan form. 2022-> 250 cm and under feature full cap construction. 280-300 mm are wood sides, painted.
Country of origin - Finland
Country of manufacture -
Aliases - unknown
Note: Used by Finland military until at least 2022/23. Scheduled for replacement in select units by KSF Scout starting in autumn 2023. Surplus military pattern Järvinen skis are available through SA-Kauppa.
Karhu “Backcountry”
190, 210 cm (adv)
87/71/78 mm (adv)
Weight unk
Edging - Full steel
Base - Waxed
Color - White with black base (obs)
Markings: Length and other numbers (NFI) melted into side wall. Side walls have core plug marking (urethane foam insertion point).
Construction - fibreglass-urethane foam-wood sandwich. Grommet on tip, wider steel sidewall than USGI or comparable skis. Classic XC plan form.
Country of origin - Canada (a Canadian company owned Karhu in the early 80s)
Country of manufacture - Canada
Notes: Front grommet. Significant Nordic rocker (obs)
Aliases: Karhu XCD 10th Mountain (different ski), Karhu USGI (unk)
Notes: Used by Canadian army (obs).
Asnes “USGI Cross Country/Downhill”
200, 210 cm length (adv)
75/65/70 mm (adv)
1536g per ski (meas 210mm)
Edging - Partial steel edge (doesn’t go all the way around tip)
Base - Waxed
Color - White
Markings - “Asnes Made in Norway” (tail), length and lot/serial number printed on side wall (mid ski)
Construction - WC Sandwich (synthetic top sheet, painted wood sides). Traditional Tele plan form. Note: Some of these skis are predrilled for military binding systems.
Country of origin - Norway
Country of manufacture - Norway
Aliases - Coleman MT65 (incorrect, they appear visually similar but some reports of different construction), Coleman NATO Combat (incorrect, this is a completely different ski)
Notes: Still in use by US Armed Forces. Large numbers stored in Frigaard Cave as part of the Marine Corps Pre-Positioning Project Norway. US delivery only. Possible use by Danish Border Guard. US military surplus Asnes USGI skis are also available to public through Coleman for US delivery only.
Asnes “Telemark Tour”
190, 210 cm lengths
xx/70/xx
Edging -
Base - Waxed
Color - White, black base
Markings - None
Construction - Painted wood, riveted stamped metal guard/loop on tip, stamped metal tail guard. Traditional backcountry/light tele plan form.
Country of origin - Norway
Country of manufacture - Norway
Aliases - Pussers Planks (UK, slang)
Notes: Possible British Royal Marines ski (only observed on RM skiing in Norway, so could be borrowed from/used by Norwegian forces (shown)
Jieitai (translation: self defense. These skis don’t appear to be “named”, probably because they are unique to the JGSDF and are the only military-issue ski in Japan.)
170 cm (single length only)
100/95/100 (media)
Color - White with white base.
Base: Scalloped friction zone (unique)
Edge - Steel
Markings - Some skis feature printing with unit identifiers (eg. CWCT)
Construction - Fibreglass, wood, grommet
Country of origin - Japan
Country of manufacture - Japan
Notes: Combat ski of the Japanese Ground Self Defense Force (JGSDF), introduced 2013. Third generation of ski made for JGSDF, the first with measurable side cut. Like all previous skis issued to the JGSDF, this ski comes in one length only and is used for both XC and DH. Not available to the public. Possibly made by Swallow Skis, a Japanese manufacturer established in 1953 that enjoyed some commercial success ~20 years ago. Video of this ski in use located here. https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... 803#p62803
Asnes “Combat NATO” ( —> 2023) “Combat NATO BC” (2023 —>)
170, 180, 190, 200, 210 cm length (adv)
84/62/74 mm (adv)
1200g per ski (adv, 200 mm ski)
Edging - Full steel edge (adv)
Base - Sintered ptex, Waxed, skin compatible with cut relief and mounting points
Color - White, black bases
Markings - None
Construction - Poplar, air core, titanal layer under binding area, pvc cap (adv). Fjellski/Tele plan form
Country of origin - Norway
Country of manufacture - Czech Republic
Aliases - USGI (incorrect), Civilian Ingstads (incorrect… shares basic dimensions but different construction). Marketed as “Combat Jaeger” or “Jeger” or “Jeger Spesial” in some European countries. Combat NATO BC (name change of model in 2023)
Notes: Observed in use by Norwegian military, USMC, and US Army 10th MTN DIV and 173rd Airborne BDE. An unknown quantity of these skis are stored in Frigaard Cave as part of the Marine Corps Pre-Positioning Project Norway.
Karhu “XCD Guide”
165, 175, 185, 195 cm
109/78/95 mm
1308g per ski (175 cm)
Edging - Full steel edge
Base - Sintered, scales, white with green stripes
Color - Blue, white, grey stylized disruptive pattern
Markings- Large “Karhu” stencil with “X” on front of ski, “Guide” stencilled on tail with length, side cut dimensions printed underneath. “Karhu” printed on underside (base), with green graphic.
Construction - Fibreglass wrapped poplar laminate. xcD plan form.
Country of origin - Finland
Country of manufacture - Finland
Aliases -
Notes: Used by Canadian military in Arctic and sub arctic environments.
Dynastar “CHAM 87”
172,178 cm (obs)
127/87/103 mm (adv)
1769g per ski (adv)
Edging - Full steel (obs)
Base - sintered alpine (adv)
Color - Chasseur Alpin disruptive (white, green, brown), black base (obs)
Markings - Dynastar on top sheet (obs)
Construction - Sandwich composite wood, fiberglas, titanal laminate. Freestyle plan form.
Country of origin - France
Country of manufacture - France
Aliases - none
Notes: Ski used by Chasseur Alpin (elite French Army alpine unit). Disruptive pattern unique to military model. Cam pattern, metal reinforced tip grommet unique to military version). Civilian version also available in 166 and 184 cm length. Military versions observed fitted with crampons, which appear to be rarely observed on military skis.

Latest version of CHAM on the right…
Järvinen “Lapponia 86”
210-280 cm
xx/86/xx (possibly reverse cut skis)
Weight unknown
Edge - No
Base - Multiple base types (sintered and extruded). Some full waxable (rare).
Color: - White with blue accents, black base (obs)
Markings - “J” on ski tip. Finnish Border Guard emblem, consisting of a stylized bear’s head and a broadsword, below. “Järvinen” printed along front of ski in large lettering, “Lapponia 86” along back half of ski in large lettering, double “J”s in mid ski area.
Construction - Wood core with fibreglass reinforcement sand which,
Country of origin - Finland
Country of manufacture - unk
Aliases - unk
Notes: Used by Finnish Border Guards (Ministry of Interior but subordinate to military for some defense functions and subject to conscription, so classed as a paramilitary organization). The Border Guard regularly patrols the frontier on skis in many places, so logs more experience than many ski troops. Works in conjunction with Special Border Jager (FDF).

Unknown Ski
xx cm
xx/xx/xx mm (approx 80-85mm at the waist, with very little side cut based on other photos)
Weight unknown
Edge - Partial
Base - unk
Color: White, with black ptex base.
Markings: Red star, outlined. Ignore "MCб" printed below in black lettering, surmounted by black arc (possibly scripted). That appears to be a unit applied marking that isn’t common to all skis of this type.
Construction: Hole in tip, no grommet. Possibly fibreglass (due to appearance around hole). Basic XCD shape. Very wide (at least 80mm under foot), but with very little side cut common to modern XCD plan forms.
Construction - Sandwich (NFI)
Country of origin - unk
Country of manufacture - unk
Aliases - unk
Notes: Observed in use by Russian motor rifle (mechanized infantry) troops operating in Northern Military District (photo taken prior to military reorganization of Russia following outbreak of war against Ukraine). Red star not necessarily indicative of Soviet Red Army. That symbol is frequently used by contemporary Russian Federation forces for a wide variety of military objects.
Key:

Adv - advertised by manufacturer or authorized reseller. Actual lengths, weights, measures may vary depending on method used by manufacturers or resellers.
Meas - measured by independent source (reviewer, TT member etc.)
Media - As reported in press
Obs. Observed in photos.
NFI. No further information

Part 2 of 3

Hagan (model unknown)
Edge: Full steel
Color - White, with white bases
Markings - Thin grey stripe down center of ski, contains the brand name “Hagan” in small typeface. Disruptive pattern top sheet (grey, white).
Construction - Grommet in tip
Notes: Used by Gebirgsjägerbrigade (German alpine infantry) since at least 2018, possibly earlier. Replaced an earlier, plain white Hagan that was slightly narrower in profile lacking disruptive patterm.
Kneissl (model unknown)
Edge- Full steel
Color - White, black base
Markings - Black Kneissl star on tip
Construction - Grommet on tip
Country of origin - Austria
Country of manufacture - Czech Republic
Notes: Used by Bundesheer (Austrian army) as principal alpine ski. Plan form appears similar to civilian White Star GS model.
Stöckli “Stormrider 95”
166, 175, 184, 193 (adv)
132/95/122 (adv)
1970g per ski (184)
Edge - Full, lightweight. Side edge milled to 3 degrees from the factory (quite aggressive)
Base - Sintered ptex, graphite modified (adv), skinable (obs)
Construction: Sandwich, etched titanal top sheet, polyethylene wall, wood core. Handmade ski. (adv)
Markings - red shield and white cross near tip with “Armeda Svizra” printed in small typeface. Olive drab camo band near tip and tail. Tip band printed with brand. Small white rectangle for soldier’s name to be written. Tail band shows “Stormrider” and the numeral 95. Length of ski and dimensions written in small lettering. Unique serial number etched in alloy tail protector (adv)
Color - White with light grey disruptive pattern, black base (obs)
Country of origin - Switzerland
Country of manufacture - Switzerland
Aliases: unk
Notes: Used by Gebirgsinfanterie (Swiss Alpine infantry). Last order of 650 received in 2021. This is a very expensive ski, with civilian versions sitting in the luxury price bracket.
Atomic “Backland 85”
165, 172, 178 cm (adv)
117/85/105.5 (172) (adv)
1240g per ski (172) (adv)
Edge - Full
Base - Sintered, skinable
Construction - Poplar and caruba core, carbon fibre backbone, fibreglass top sheet , cap construction, 87/1 side/base angle set by factory
Markings - Atomic on tips, “85” behind binding, gold band, “Backland” in small font on rear of ski
Color - Black with stylized terrain accents on mid ski
Country of origin - Austria
Country of manufacture -
Aliases - unk
Notes: Used by Polish military alpine team. Appears to be off the shelf purchase. No discernible difference from consumer model.

Trab “Altavia 6.0”
150, 157, 164, 171, 178 cm
116/82/104 mm
1110g per ski (164)
Edge - Full steel
Base - Sintered, black, skinable
Construction - Cap, air gap wood, carbon reinforced binding area, twin tip tail (unusual)
Markings - “Alta”, “Altavia” printed ahead of binding area, Mountain graphic
Color - Black with white tip
Country of origin - Italy
Country of manufacture - EU (exact country unk)
Aliases - Altavia 60 (60 refers to flex, 70 also available in this model)
Notes: Used by People’s Liberation Army in 2023 (obs) at inaugural showing in Edelweiss Raid. Possibly a team ski purchased for this event, not a combat model.

Voile “Ultra Vector BC White”
or
Black Diamond Carbon” (possible candidate, medium confidence only)

Notes: Candidate for one of several skis used by Ejército de Chile (Chilean Army… either 3rd Division Mountain Warfare Division or select Lautaro Special Operations Brigade specialists). Possibly modified version for Chilean military with a black (graphite impregnated) ptex base… versus white ptex for commercial model. The skis shown appear to be in the ~154-164 cm length range more suited to high angle slope, high portability than a typical army alpine mobility ski. Holding off adding stats for this ski until more conclusive evidence is received.

Trab “Tour Rando” XL
151, 157, 164, 171, 178 cm
113/110/99 mm
1310g per ski (171 cm)
Edge - Full steel
Base - Sintered, black, skinable
Construction - Cap, air gap wood, reinforced binding area, fibreglass top sheet
Markings - “Ski Trab” along front of ski
Color - White with black scribble
Country of origin - Italy
Country of manufacture - EU (exact country unk)
Aliases - unk
Notes: Used by Russian SOF in 2018 (obs) and by unidentified Russian Forces in 2019 and 2021 during the Sayan March. Probably an earlier production model with slightly different top sheet graphic. Civilian versions available in wide XL and narrower widths.

KSF “Scout”
230 cm (available in three different camber stiffnesses… soft (50-80kg), medium (65-100kg) and hard (90-130kg))
90/75/82 mm
1575g per ski
Edging - No, edgeless
Base - Waxless (70cm scale zone)
Color - White with shaded areas, white ptex bases
Markings - “KSF SCOUT” on front of ski, “SCOUT Made in Finland by Kitee Ski Factory” on back of ski (civilian versions only… military pre delivery models were all white).
Construction - Cap construction. Foam core, plywood reinforcement under the binding area. Civilian version lacks the grommet in the ski tip.
Country of origin - Finland
Country of manufacture - Finland
Aliases - None
Notes: Developed from 2017-2020, followed by operational test and evaluation to function and carry effectively in the unbroken snow conditions of northern Finland. Contract awarded 2022. Initial distribution of military version to Finland military scheduled for Jaeger Brigade and Kainuu Brigade during the winter season 2023–2024, in parallel with the rollout of a civilian version through KSF retailers. Finnish forces operating in the south of the country will continue to use Jarvinen skis. The KSF Scout is listed with the NATO Procurement and Supply Agency, which allows other nations in the alliance to acquire these skis on standing offer pricing. The most likely candidate in the near term is Sweden, which is engaged in NATO interoperability initiatives in partnership with Finland. https://www.army-technology.com/feature ... with-nato/
Icelantic (likely military version of Nomad 105)
176 cm (obs)
140/105/130 mm (adv)
Weight - 1815g per ski (adv)
Color - White, with digicam grey accents
Construction - Grommets front and rear tips (unusual), dual rocker ski, carbon top, poplar and paulownia wood, with fibreglass reinforcement (adv)
Edges - Steel 2.2 mm (adv)
Base - Sintered ptex 4001, black. Interlocking fibreglass reinforced base on tail section of base.
Markings - “Icelantic Made in the USA” written in small print, logo
Country of origin - US
Country of manufacture - US
Notes: Obs in use by 86th Infantry BDE (Mountain), edelweiss raid 2023. Also observed being used 25th Marine Regiment in Exercise Northern Viper, Hokkaido, Japan. This suggests widespread use of this ski by US forces.
Elan “Ibex Tactix”
163, 170 cm (adv)
118/84/103 (adv)
2380 per ski (adv, 163 ski)
Edging - Full steel
Base - Sintered, white
Color - White, with digicam grey camouflage. (Unique to military at the moment)
Markings - Lagre “Elan” logo in light grey along front of ski.
Construction - Cap, wood laminate, fibreglass top sheet, longitudinal carbon reinforcing rods, titanal reinforced. Note. This is a folding ski.
Country of origin - Slovenia
Country of manufacture - Slovenia
Aliases - None
Notes: Currently under trial by Italian Alpini (world’s oldest alpine combat force). Military acceptance pending. Civilian version is a very expensive ski.
Key:

Adv - advertised by manufacturer or authorized reseller. Actual lengths, weights, measures may vary depending on method used by manufacturers or resellers.
Meas - measured by independent source (reviewer, TT member etc.)
Media - As reported in press
Obs. Observed in photos.
NFI. No further information

Part 3 located here…

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5999&p=61345#p61345

Good list, but some minor corrections.
The designation for those skis sold as surplus by Colemans is/was "Åsnes Fjellski MT-65", as noted in official documents posted here, also the ski sidewalls are ABS, not wood.
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3685

Also, in my experience with the foam injected Karhu military skis, there's no "nordic rocker", just a slight nordic camber, at least in all of the new pair I skied. Otherwise, they have a pretty darn stiff tip and tail. Any of those skis displaying much of a "rocker" are just plain worn out, a common problem with older foam injected skis. Fwiw, I just sold my last pair of that ski last winter, so have some good knowledge of it's ski characteristics.

[EDIT]. Reply to above post deleted to make room for Part 3. General observations are included at the end of this part.

Part 3 of 3

Fischer “Outback 68 Crown/Skin Xtralite”
169, 179, 189, 199 cm
68/59/64 mm
Weight - 1775g per ski (nominal)
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable
Color - Blue-Green top sheet, two tone base (black and blue-white)
Markings - “Fischer” printed along front of ski in yellow. “OTX 68” mid ski, Polar projection graphic on the rear of binding area with the ski length printed on tail in yellow.
Construction - Air gapped wood, cap constriction, Nordic rocker, waxless base. Modified for military use with the addition of an oversized hole in the tips of the skis.
Country of Origin - Austria
Country of Manufacture - Austria, Ukraine (production in latter likely interrupted by war since 2022)
Aliases - unk
Notes: Used by Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (elite unit of Danish Navy that patrols Greenland and accepts only 6-7 members a year to help form six, two-man patrol teams). A rare example of an overtly civilian ski used for operational military purposes (surveillance, reconnaissance but not combat).

Elan “Ibex 84”
149, 156, 163, 170, 177 cm
120, 84, 105 mm (170 cm length)
Weight - 1400g
Edge - Steel
Base - Black, sintered, Skinnable
Color - White with lt grey disruptive pattern
Markings - “Elan” printed along front of ski in light grey, “Ibex 84” printed along rear of ski in light grey font
Construction - Laminated wood core, fibreglass and aluminum reinforcement. Hole in tip (military version only)
Aliases - unk
Country of Origin - Slovenia
Country of Manufacture - Slovenia
Notes: Used by Serbian Land Army. British Army donated ski equipment to Serbian Army military academy in 2021 valued at GBP 50,000. Royal Marine Mountain Leaders started training Serbian personnel in winter operations at the Military Academy in March 2021 to facilitate the establishment of the 211th Mountain Battalion.

Karhu “Jak Team Edition“
172,
134/100/125mm
Color - Black top sheet with thin orange line, black base
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable.
Markings - Bear logo in white near tip, “Karhu” written below
Weight - 1100g per ski (NFI)
Construction - Aspen and maple laminate, titanal reinforced, four layer fibreglass wrap, single layer cap, free ride plan form (different than Jak BC and later model DH versions.
Country of origin -
Country of manufacture -
Notes: Used by Grupo Militar de Alta Montaña, Spanish Army Alpine specialists. This is an older model of ski but was photographed in use as late as 2020, so counting it as currently in use.


Fischer “Sceneo S100” (60-70% confidence level due to limited published photos)
130, 140, 150, 160, 170 cm
106/71/97mm
Color - White with black graphics, black base
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable.
Markings - “Fischer” and logo along front of ski in black, large format. Hebrew letter (ayn ע) printed on tail of ski in large font framed by two black lines. This is a symbol of perception and insight, so might be used by a particular reconnaissance element of the Alpinist unit or the unit itself. Commercial version features black tips, high contrast graphics along ski.
Weight -
Construction - Wood laminate, cap. Alpine plan form.
Country of origin - Austria
Country of manufacture -
Notes: Photographed IDF Alpinist unit on patrol (note weapons) on Mt Hermon by Israeli press in 2018.
K2 “Wayback 88”
160, 167, 174, 181 cm
121/88/109 mm
Color - Green and black, black base
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable.
Markings - “K2” and logo along front of ski in yellow and outline, large format. “88” mid ski, “K2” on tail. “K2” printed tip and tail on base in white lettering.
Weight - 2550g (174 cm)
Construction - Paulownia wood core and carbon laminate, titinal plate, full cap. Grommet in tip.
Country of origin - USA
Country of manufacture - China
Notes: Observed in use by Uzbek Army (likely SOF) during Sayan March, a military alpine competition hosted by Russia, 2022. The Uzbek team came third, behind Russia and China suggesting considerable familiarity with these skis. This suggests that they are part of the Uzbek Army inventory (numbers unk but likely very low because Uzbek team was also using another, unidentified, ski… possibly the K2 Mindbender).

Hagan “Ultra 87”
154, 162, 170, 176 cm
121/87/107 mm
Color - Black, black base
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable.
Markings - “Hagan” printed on tips and tail, shadowed overprint in large format along length of ski. logo along front of ski in yellow and outline, large format. “Ultra 87” printed along rear of ski, lengthwise in white lettering.
Weight - 1120g/ski
Construction - Carbon Top layer, ABS-Semi-Sidwall, Paulownia wood core, Carbon Bottom layer, fibreglass binding reinforcement
Country of origin - Austria
Country of manufacture - Austria
Notes: Observed in use by Russian Federation Armed Forces during the 2021 Sayan March. Also observed in use by the Russian Federation Armed Forces Women’s ski team (in uniform, with load vests (photo shown). Women cannot serve in front line combat roles in the RF, but they can enlist and serve in combat support roles such as medical or communications. Women can also serve in the Ministrybof Internal Affairs (MVD), which has a paramilitary role and has provided perimeter security for alpine venues like the Sochi Olympics.



Asnes “Combat NATO 62” (tentative, pending adoption by Norwegian Army
175,185,195,205 cm
84/62/74 mm
Color - White
Edge - Steel
Base - Sintered, skinnable.
Markings - None
Weight - 1200g/ski
Construction - Poplar wood-core construction, Titanal reinforcement, nylon cap tapered tip, Nordic Rocker Construction
Country of origin - Norway
Country of manufacture -
Notes: Introduced late 2023, possibly to meet revised Norwegian Army specifications published in late 2022 (https://www.mercell.com/m/file/GetFile. ... &version=0. Link courtesy @CwmRaider). That requirement is currently seeking bidders. MTF. Visually distinguished from previous Combat NATO version by a more tapered tip (if Nordic rocker obscured by snow or photo angle). That tapered tip is very close in plan form to Asnes USGI from many years ago.





Key:

Adv - advertised by manufacturer or authorized reseller. Actual lengths, weights, measures may vary depending on method used by manufacturers or resellers.
Meas - measured by independent source (reviewer, TT member etc.)
Media - As reported in press
Obs. Observed in photos.
NFI. No further information

General observations..

These are broad observations, not absolutes. They are made following the identification of military ski equipment from photos, press releases, and manufacturer web sites.

1. XCd skis preferred by militaries seem to follow a fairly consistent formula. 60-80mm wide, cap construction, steel edge, raised tip, grommet in tip. Edgeless skis are typically older designs dating back 15 years or more. The exception are the long XC oriented skis preferred by Finnish forces. Militaries appear agnostic about where they source XCd skis from except for the Finns who show a clear preference for the very long skis produced nationally. All militaries appear comfortable using XC and XCd skis in low angle environments, even when carrying heavy backpacks (combat loads of 100 lbs are not unusual for US and UK Forces) and personal weapons. They are often supported by vehicles such as the BV 206 or snowmobiles (tundra, near alpine)… or Sisu Pasi (Finland, Norway), BMP 2/3 (Russia, former WP countries), or HUMVEE (forest, snow covered roads, or rear areas).

2. xcD designs don’t appear to be favored by militaries. Alpine forces use freestyle DH skis. Most of these originate from national manufacturers (French use French skis, Swiss use Swiss skis etc.). Alpine forces typically travel light, use skins on the ascent, and carry light machine guns and assault or marksmen rifles. Some of these forces deploy by parachute or helicopter. The load out for such troops usually includes rappelling and climbing gear.

3. Combat XCd skis are mostly fitted with a captive toe binding (NATO M98) or a strap binding (NATO 120). NNN-BC and light tele bindings is observed in use with paramilitary and light recon military forces using these same skis. Finnish and Japanese forces show a strong preference for captive toe bindings. NN is rarely seen… couldn’t find a contemporary example and wasn’t looking far back in history because it was irrelevant to the thread topic. This counters the popular narrative until ppl actually look at what militaries use…

xxxxx wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:48 am

They still offer the NATO ski in their catalog…
The military and anybody else with half a brain will use 75mm bindings and boots to get the most out of them.

4. Commercially available alpine bindings used in most DH setups. A few tele bindings observed. When troops climb the steeps, they typically switch to snow shoes. Why? Because they’re the most efficient way of climbing when carrying heavy loads. This is particularly the case in the Alps, where very high angle slopes make it impractical to “skin up” a slope.

5. Differing procurement strategies. Some countries buy skis in large quantities from one or two suppliers every 10-15 years. Others procure relatively small numbers of skis continuously in an incremental approach to ski replacement. US buys big. Finland, Canada buy incrementally… which explains minor pattern variations and a diversity in their holdings (not all of which has been captured here). Austria, Switzerland and Italy buy exceptionally high quality skis in small batches, mostly to re-equip small, highly specialized alpine units.

5a. Some ski suppliers are in name only. They purchase the skis, then resell to militaries under their name, doing so in order to create the illusion of “national purchase” of goods. This was observed in one case involving a US supplier. The skis didn’t carry a brand name and were not available for public sale (probably because their deal with the manufacturer was exclusively for an onward military sale… not to interfere with the original manufacturer’s commercial operations in the US).

6. Big knowledge gaps exist. Argentina, Latvia, Estonia have ski forces and substantial histories fighting and patrolling on skis. Lack of clear photographs leads to knowledge gaps on specific ski equipment used on operations. The biggest impediment in research is the absence of meta tagged images, which makes searching for photos a laborious process.

7. Cautions. Care needed nefore drawing conclusions based on photos of troops skiing at training centers. These centers don’t always use military pattern skis, choosing lighter skis or patterns better suited to groomed snow in order to facilitate skills development. Ditto for intra military ski competitions (Inter military competitions mostly use combat gear, probably because such competitions assess broad military skills besides skiing (navigation, observation, communication, camouflage, shooting, first aid, casualty evacuation, survival, sustainment)).

8. Few detailed photos of Special Operations Forces are available. SOF also known to procure skis from several manufacturers or discretely contained in part of larger defence buys. This reduces the possibility of identifying forces based on signature equipment and increases operational security in discrete reconnaissance and Foreign Internal Defense type operations… unless their nations aren’t too bright. Operators in some militaries also enjoy a great deal of latitude on personal equipment, small arms etc. that can be chosen for personal use. Sometimes the only criterion is basic commonality at the team level (i.e. same bullets). This can result in a mismatch of personal gear or no clear signature gear beyond uniforms.

9. The One Ski Quiver. This notion is dismissed in the civilian world but is standard operating procedure for militaries. Why? Because the burden of storing, moving and preparing multiple ski types for militaries expected to deploy from Finnmark to the Southern Alps to the Arctic is too much. Combat infantry troops (the majority of soldiers using skis) are young and fit. This makes them suited to overcoming a ski limitation by applying more effort. Because of all this, militaries stock one ski, one binding, and one boot. The sizes may vary, but you’ll find the same *thing* in most military depots (unless skis are being phased in/out). That *thing* won’t be radical. Its design will be suited to the broadest conditions, even if that means it doesn’t perform as well as any particular civilian ski in a particular setting. No ski snobbery. The best examples of this appear to be the Japanese Jieitai and Norwegian Asnes Combat NATO (XCd) and the Atomic Backland (DH). Buying these skis won’t turn anybody into the Marvel Universe’s Winter Soldier but a well built, general purpose ski used by a solider who’s all up weight may be as high as 300 pounds isn’t a bad place to start building a quiver around.

10. What about the Finns? Arguably the best combat infantry on skis in the world… mostly using long skis ideally suited to places like the Karelia, which is where the Finns would prefer to meet an invading force in the winter. Now they’re in NATO and, therefore, expected to deploy to defend the alliance anywhere along its periphery. So the million Euro question is whether the Finns will incorporate a broader, general purpose ski into their inventory. This would be a new thing for the Finnish military. But hey, they’re Finns on skis…. They’ll work it out. (See video at the bottom of this page https://yle.fi/a/74-20027001)

End Note: Why so many edits in parts 1, 2, and 3? Look at the number of data points. Editing required as new info, revised data, better photos, random thoughts etc. received. Then the list had to be split twice to get past file limits.

The number of edits and revisions highlight the difficulty of this project… believe it or not, militaries don’t publish a great deal of data about something as “insignificant” as a ski. Not part of the military industrial complex. Doesn’t involve Foreign Military Sales, so they aren’t tracked by defense departments etc. The emphasis of photography is on the troops, not their skis. Half the time most of the skis are covered by snow, pictires are posted in screen resolutions, complicating precise identification.

In the US military, and probably others, gear like skis and ski poles, boots, etc., are indeed given a listed shelf life in inventory, and are disposed of thru US government surplus sales, which is, for example, how Coleman's bought all of their skis, skins, poles, etc. Same thing with the Karhu military skis sold on fleabay, all disposed of to the highest bidder in DoD or GSA surplus sales. If you visit some of those sites via Google, and check out US NSNs for skis and etc you'll find probably many listings for many different skis, bindings, boots poles etc over the years.
I've seen many different USGI skis, including just about every brand imaginable, inc. Dynastar, K2, Tua, Elan, Alpina, list goes on an on. Some alpine skis, some XC skis, lots of variety. With a large military, supplies like these are turned over frequently. Within the last few years a nearby Army post disposed of hundreds of pair of used alpine touring skis, with bindings, for example. for pennies on the dollar. As I've mentioned, I worked for a manufacturer and supplier of military skis equipment, and some purchases from us were in the million(s) dollar range, and others, much less, depending on the service and the requirements. We even sold hundreds of assault snowshoes to the Israeli Army at one point.
Don't know about small countries like Sweden and Finland, or even Britain and Norway; with tighter military budgets, as they're more likely to hold on to gear for longer periods of time. Last thing I read about the new Åsnes Combats in the Norwegian Army was that those skis would initially, at least, be issued in smaller quantities to specific units due to cost, and other units would continue with the older ski models already issued, and skis would be replaced over a longer time span.

Yep. Agree.

Looking at Finland, Canada… many of the skis are old. Really old. Visually worn out… apparent in even low-resolution images.

BTW, Coleman’s makes no reference to MT65 in the USGI skis currently on their site…

https://colemans.com/u-s-g-i-cross-coun ... nhill-skis

Coleman’s says the skis are “unissued”. So new, old stock. What are the chances of that being said about a 30 yo ski? Unlikely. Between the USMC, USA, and National Guard, somebody would have used them by now. Heck, the USCG does Arctic training too.

… so thinking that the MT65s might be the generation-before-last. Would make more sense than the s@me skis being kept on the books, unused, for 30+ years.

What you say about Norway 100% makes sense. Combat NATOs not in every line unit. Finland going down the same track, with limited units specified to receive the KSF Scout (probably only a portion of the lowland troops because a 230 cm ski isn’t going to be the one used in hill country, such as it exists in Finland).

Unravelling the past is hard. This is the reason why sticking to “in service” equipment makes sense. We can get some clarity down in print now, while things are fresh.

In many respects, the USGI’s are the ski of yesteryear. Only included them because they’re still shown in contemporary photos. Giving them a Mulligan for that.

Manney wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:21 pm

Should have kept the photo of the Canadian Karhu in action. Looked like Turkish slippers. Ha ha. Norwegian rocker galore. Everything past the compressed grip zone was standing proud of the packed snow. Typical clapped out foam core ski… like an old glue pony. Will post if found. It’s good for a laugh.

There’s yer rocker. LOL. Whatever camber those skis once had is GONE. Not the ground either. Totally compressed and the front half of the ski lifting clear off the ground.

Not the one seen before… these aren’t the old Karhu skis… but it will do for now.

Or this one… Kentucky National Guard. MT65s? Sure as heck aren’t USGIs… no grommet hole, different construction.. wood base (LOl). An example of a two-generations-ago ski getting to third echelon troops. Still on Uncle Sam’s books? Apparently so. Jeez.
These are pretty clear photos compared to most. Tracking down ski types from shots like these is like a forensic audit. Stuff doesn’t just appear with logos and model designations. Need to look at the skis, the year of the photo, context (Canadian one is a training center, the other way down the USA pecking order). Then compare them with construction specs (can’t imagine that the ski the Guardsman was wearing was ever fully capped… looks like poly top sheet and wood laminate construction).

Often, you get just enough of a look to identify the ski…
Not much of the ski shown, but enough to identify it. Karhu.XCD Guide. Military binding system and issue mukluks used by Canada. Replaced the old foam core Karhu.

Or you get an incredible photo, like these fine looking Italian Alpini Corps.
Obviously contemporary skis. Not a lot to identify them by. Have an idea or two, but haven’t matched them definitively to a manufacturer or model yet.

Standard issue skis in Finland are 225cm long tops. 210 and 225cm models, mixed Järvinen and Karhu builds, mostly Karhu. Main differences are the grip section options, there are plenty of different models of bases. Very few fully waxable. These will still be used by most troops. Not sure what they will do when most are phased out. Get more of the same skis or make the shift to Scouts?

The border guard has also had Järvinen Lapponia 85 in 280cm, don't know if they have had other lengths too. I have a pair, has the J logo paired with the bearhead logo of the border guard. Also this logo in the bindings. They have a full plastic base which does not take wax that well, but they came to me waxed with tar. Supposedly that worked.

Awesome info. This will come in handy… can look at more photos with some background and context. Thx!

In the meantime, came across this photo… the border guard on skis is the least of my worries. Ha ha
There are the skis though… exactly as you said! Looks like a 210 in this case maybe. Added this model ski to the list. Few specifications online. Let me know the side cut of your skis if you ever measure them. Also any info on the cap, sidewall material.

Good photos.
Those Kaintuck NG troops are training in Sweden on Swedish military equipment. Looks like old stuff, for sure.
The Canadians in the first photo are on alpine width skis with some kind of logo on the bottom of the shovel, which is not the same model as those old Karhus sold on Ebay, although the skis could indeed be made by Karhu, which at one point manufactured skis in Canada. A long time ago, however.
The Coleman's skis are mostly new in the box. The skis were purchased from the Army in that condition, I know, as I bought several full unopened boxes for resale from Colemans a while back, mostly in 190cm and some 200cm, which is probably why there are no more 190s for sale... 190cm was by far the most popular skiing length due to the camber and width. I did receive a couple of mismatched pair and some "shopworn but new", but very few of the total. The skis were predrilled at the factory for a specific Nato binding, so at unit level of issue, only screwdrivers were needed.