Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Posted: **Wed May 24, 2023 8:57 pm**

I’m looking to pull the trigger on a pair of skis to mount my older (but excellent condition) Rotefella Cobra R8 75mm bindings on that will work for both in-bounds and touring, and I’m coming up on a difficult question: how much does it really matter, especially to someone at the beginner-intermediate level like myself that a ski is designed for tele skiing, like the Bishop Gonzo?

I got the bindings and the skis they’re currently mounted on for free, but the skis are these old line twin tips that are too tall for me and super heavy. I shelled out for a very lightly used pair of Crispi XRs recently, so jumping to NTN is not in my budget right now.

I’m looking to replace them with skis that will last me a long time and will still be fun to ski as I improve. Looking at lighter options so I can tour on them, the Dynafit Free 97 and Atomic Maverick 95 stick out to me as good all-mountain touring skis, but I keep hearing about how modern skis are so focused on an alpine setup that telemarking on them is…..worse somehow?? The Gonzo from Bishop is a little pricier but Bishop advertises itself as being designed for telemark turns…. is this just marketing or is it really worth it to shell out for a ski designed with tele skiing in mind? Any opinions?

Posted: **Wed May 24, 2023 9:15 pm**

One of the things I hate about ski shopping is that almost no one releases detailed specs. Generally— good “heavy” tele skis will have modest rocker, good camber, and flex softer due to the equal weighting of the skis (imho). The bishops will have this for sure. But other skis will *also* have this and it will be hard to find out the details. This is one reason for the community review section here.

But I’d stress less and buy what you can get a good price on in the off season. You really only begin to get picky on your 4th or 5th set… I have a custom order scheduled for October delivery for what I hope will be my ultimate heavy resort tele setup. I’ll write about it here when I get them.

Posted: **Wed May 24, 2023 9:20 pm**

Never skied Bishops… want to though. They get good reviews and have a strong following.

The Bishops have more side cut ratio and a wider tail than the Dynafits and the Atomics you mentioned. Their weight falls in the middle. There’s not going to be much camber difference in these skis of this class. Camber resistance or stiffness can vary though. So can damping, which is related to stiffness and materials used in construction.

Either way, the dimensions of the Bishops suggest better turn initiation (due to side cut) and additional back foot stability (due to surface area).

Posted: **Wed May 24, 2023 9:52 pm**

spopepro wrote: ↑
Wed May 24, 2023 9:15 pm
But I’d stress less and buy what you can get a good price on in the off season. You really only begin to get picky on your 4th or 5th set…

Fine versus gross parameters: you're looking for gross ones so the finer stuff, as @spopepro says, won't likely come into the picture yet.

To put it another way, if you get the gross squared away, you're more likely to bump up against your limits before that of the ski gear. And the more miles you put on it, the more likely you'll develop your own list specific to you of Needs and Wants.

Don't forget to check out auction sites, local shops (used and new), and craigslist now and through the off-season. Some may be dumping gear they just bought that didn't suit them.

Posted: **Thu May 25, 2023 2:45 am**

spopepro wrote: ↑
Wed May 24, 2023 9:15 pm
You really only begin to get picky on your 4th or 5th set…

I had to ski several sets of skis before I started to understand how different characteristics affected ski performance.

@Jlars13, if you're someplace where you can go into ski shops and flex skis, you can learn a lot that way. It takes time, but you will learn a lot.
Hold the tip and press on Boot Center to flex the whole ski.
Flex the back end of the ski.
Flex the front end of the ski.
Hold the ski 45* away from you, put your foot near the "boot center" mark, press down, and sight along the ski to see the shape of the flex (softer / rounder, stiffer / flatter).
Hold the skis base to base and look at the rocker profiles at tip and tail, how much camber there is, and how stiff to flatten together.
Decide if you want a twin tip ski or not.
Know what kind of snow you are likely to ski (East Coast / West Coast / Whatever).

Then, when you are considering skis, you have a frame of reference.
Try and read between the lines for manufacturer's ad copy -- lots of times the info is there, but buried in writeup that makes it sound like the ski is great for everything.
Read reviews (the more the better, so you can filter out the fluff) and then take with a grain of salt.

There are A LOT of skis out there and it can get overwhelming.
A lot of manufacturers are making lighter skis for Alpine Touring (AT), so have a tail notch for skins.
As long as the ski is not too stiff, good chance it will work for you, but there really is a large range of designs out there:
- Lots of tip rocker, not much tip rocker.
- More or less camber.
- Light, or really light.
- More side cut, less side cut (turn radius).
- How much difference is there between tip and tail width?
- Skis anywhere from 80mm waist on up.

I know that's a lot. Or, just buy the Bishops, or cruise Craigslist until you find something for $150, maybe even with bindings (if you don't want the bindings, you can sell them -- I once got a free pair of skis this way).

Also, the Bishops are on sale right now, so, if you were ever going to buy them, now is a good time...
But really, they are not going to be radically better than other options.
Sort of comes down to if your ok with the price.
This guy really likes his:

More in-depth comments from same guy: https://absolutetelemark.com/best-all-m ... qus_thread

Good luck in your search!

Posted: **Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:02 pm**

I'm late to this ...

My opinion (could be wrong), buy the Bishop binding, instead of the ski.
The Bishop will make any ski sing.
I ski both BMF/3 and the BMF/R and haven't regretted a day on either.
It's the binding.

Save your old gear, if you have an urge to go uphill.

Posted: **Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:54 pm**

Jlars13 wrote: ↑
Wed May 24, 2023 8:57 pm
...how much does it really matter, especially to someone at the beginner-intermediate level like myself that a ski is designed for tele skiing, like the Bishop Gonzo?

I don't think it matters at all for the type of skiing you're talking about. Most of the beginner-intermediate "alpine" skis out there will have a forgiving flex, and you can get some smoking deals on them.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:52 pm**

Montana St Alum wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:54 pm

Jlars13 wrote: ↑
Wed May 24, 2023 8:57 pm
...how much does it really matter, especially to someone at the beginner-intermediate level like myself that a ski is designed for tele skiing, like the Bishop Gonzo?
It matters a lot with the Gonzo. It has zero rocker. All camber. like a x-country ski... It is difficult to make an alpine turn on these skis. You cannot ride the backseat if you get into trouble. You don't have any front rocker to initiate quick turns in tight places. That being said, I love these skis. If you can make a tele turn every time, you can do anything and take them anywhere. They find grip on firmest snow and are surprisingly good in moderate pow, crud and corn for a 90mm ski. However, I would definitely not recommend them for someone who makes a lot of free heel alpine turns. The flip side of that is that they will force you to learn the tele turn much faster....Take them into the trees and you'll see what I mean.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:36 pm**

MattVT wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:52 pm

Montana St Alum wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:54 pm

Jlars13 wrote: ↑
Wed May 24, 2023 8:57 pm
...how much does it really matter, especially to someone at the beginner-intermediate level like myself that a ski is designed for tele skiing, like the Bishop Gonzo?
It matters a lot with the Gonzo. It has zero rocker. All camber. like a x-country ski... It is difficult to make an alpine turn on these skis. You cannot ride the backseat if you get into trouble. You don't have any front rocker to initiate quick turns in tight places. That being said, I love these skis. If you can make a tele turn every time, you can do anything and take them anywhere. They find grip on firmest snow and are surprisingly good in moderate pow, crud and corn for a 90mm ski. However, I would definitely not recommend them for someone who makes a lot of free heel alpine turns. The flip side of that is that they will force you to learn the tele turn much faster....Take them into the trees and you'll see what I mean.
I didn't write this. I've never skied the Gonzo. But it sounds like good advice.

"It matters a lot with the Gonzo. It has zero rocker. All camber. like a x-country ski... It is difficult to make an alpine turn on these skis. You cannot ride the backseat if you get into trouble. You don't have any front rocker to initiate quick turns in tight places. That being said, I love these skis. If you can make a tele turn every time, you can do anything and take them anywhere. They find grip on firmest snow and are surprisingly good in moderate pow, crud and corn for a 90mm ski. However, I would definitely not recommend them for someone who makes a lot of free heel alpine turns. The flip side of that is that they will force you to learn the tele turn much faster....Take them into the trees and you'll see what I mean."

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 11:20 pm**

Wow the quoting really got messed up here… and I agree that I like less rocker for tele turns I’m not 100% sure how a ski could work as dramatically different for different turns as described.

I’m personally waiting on delivery of something that I custom ordered. 94mm under foot, 18m turn radius, 6mm camber, 29mm tip rocker, and 20mm tail rocker with a softer than typical flex. I’ll be mounting BMF-3 bindings on them and looking to shred. Hoping this hits the sweet spot for me.

Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

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Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?

Re: “Heavy” tele ski selection question- Bishop skis worth it?