Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Oh tele gods, unlock your wisdom.

I recently moved to Vermont and picked up tele. I love it, if alpine is rock and roll, tele is jazz.

This being said, I am no Miles Davis.

My fear is this- I want to explore the backcountry, and I have already done some skinning (smuggs notch, Pico and Killington, etc.) but I stick to the groomers or the Notch road on the decent. I want to explore and do runs like Tuckerman's in NH and similar stuff. I know if I got an AT setup I could jump into something like that tomorrow, I have alpine skied for about 7 years, but that is not the path to true enlightenment.

Currently I have an old pre-Switchback-ish 75 mm binding, some beat up old Scarpas, and a pair of Rossi 200 TDIs 70 underfoot. Multiple people have told me that new gear would make it "easier" and that I could progress faster.

Here is my question - Is it reasonable to believe that if I got an upgraded setup (NTN or TTS) could I reasonably expect to send some double blacks on groomers in a season (23/24)? If anyone here has been in the tele game for less than 3 lifetimes and can make a turn I would love to hear what your progression experience was like.

Peace

Let’s start with Peace, after all we are only having fun sliding on snow.
I live in Michigan, so my equipment can be lighter than yours. My heavy gear is a T-4 and a Tindan 86 ski (probably a Vector class, but a bit more narrow) mounted 3- pin Hardwire. I am quite confident my ski is already easier to ski than yours, just due to rocker and width. I know it is easier than my more narrow ski.

Recently I have come to a revelation, I should have know, I guess I was just arrogant. I once was a very good skier, however 10 years off, followed by ten years of mostly trail skiing, my Telemark skills are not what they once were. I’ve committed to riding chairs again, and it already has made a big difference.

Now that I ride chairs again, I meet other Tele skiers. Almost all are skiing NTN, and universally they comment about the increase in edge control. Since they are skiing NTN, they are also on 4 buckle boots.

To answer your question I believe for your terrain a free pivot type NTN binding and a boot like the Scarpa TX Pro would make a huge difference. As for a ski, that really depends. I certainly would not want a scaled ski at the resort, but a Vector BC would be a very good choice for the backcountry. If you mounted skis with inserts you could go NTN with one set of expensive bindings and have two skis.

Now since I don’t want to be a hypocrite, in full disclosure I want to be clear. I made my mind up to start riding chairs again in February. I am already skiing in a much less embarrassing way already. This is on T-4, 3-pin HW, and 86 mm underfoot. I do not plan on changing that next season, however I am interested in the long awaited light touring boot from Scarpa in 2024. I’ll see how I progress with my skiing goal through next season. If I can realize my goal, I’ll just beat up my present gear.

In closing I would suggest if you are looking for gear the guys at Telemark Down (Aspinock Woods) in NH are very knowledgeable.

At the very minimum I would suggest a modern touring ski, mid 80 mm to mid 90 mm with a touch of rocker. You really don’t want too much rocker, a little does a lot. For touring either a Switchback or an SB X2 will provide free pivot for your climbs. I have not skied an Asnes Fjoro 92, I ski the discontinued Tindan 86. The nice thing about these skis is the offer an access skin (integrated short skin system). That offers a short skin for rolling approaches, similar traction to scales. However on a smooth based ski. Just a more difficult option to purchase, but perhaps more versatile ski (resort and BC) to Voile. Scales are no fun on piste.

if you can ski expert terrain competently and correctly today, it's reasonable to assume that within a season or 2 you could do so on tele gear IF commit to learning the fundamentals. if you cannot ski expert terrain today on alpine, it is not reasonable to think you have business on Tucks next season on Tele.

nightofthelivingtele wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:56 pm

Here is my question - Is it reasonable to believe that if I got an upgraded setup (NTN or TTS) could I reasonably expect to send some double blacks on groomers in a season (23/24)?

No.
I agree with fisheater and bauerb.
That would not be a reasonable expectation, but you can still have a lot of fun.

I skied alpine for many years. I have now skied telemark for 18 years on modern gear. I ski well, but I expect I could go out and ski extreme stuff (after a week or so to reacquaint with alpine) on alpine gear that I couldn't ski as well on, on tely gear.

As mentioned before, you'll progress faster (if that's your goal) skiing at a resort just because you'll get way more runs and repetition helps. And something like an NTN/TxPro setup will make progression faster as well.

Thank you to everyone.
My funds are not unlimited, and I am going to be getting a pass to smuggs, so I will have lift chair access.
I plan on taking a tele class, but for now I am using a local baby mtn for hot laps, focusing BIG on that back foot.

My ask was really to determine if I am going to be limiting myself too much, and it doesn't sound that way. I can get out there and explore all the steeps, I just need to put in the time, which I am more than happy to do.

Thank for the advice, and I plan on keeping this loose setup to practice on.

you don't need big funds. I'm willing to bet that most of the best tele skiers on this site learned on cheap junk they found in an old barn or made their own stuff out of alpine cast-offs and swap meet donations. . when I learned I had zero funds.

If you are really serious about getting into backcountry tele, I would definitely consider TTS-- it's significantly lighter than NTN, which is a big win on the uphill. I think it skis at least as well as my old 75mm setup, which was Voile CRB hardwires, but I'm in Colorado so I'm usually skiing soft snow. I've had good luck with the bindings releasing when they should, but I think this depends a lot on experimenting and getting the setup right. There are lots of TTS options and it's a bit of a rabbit hole, but the bindings are relatively inexpensive. The options for boots are kind of limited, though.

I like skiing steep terrain (well, steep for me), but I think the real joy of backcountry telemark is finding untracked powder, which doesn't have to be super steep to be an absolute blast. It's so much more fun on tele.

I would also recommend taking an avalanche class.

durist wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:23 pm

I like skiing steep terrain (well, steep for me), but I think the real joy of backcountry telemark is finding untracked powder, which doesn't have to be super steep to be an absolute blast. It's so much more fun on tele.

I would also recommend taking an avalanche class.

2nd. Don't know the snow depths, but assume they can drift, tree wells and other hazards. If you're wanting to get into the steep/deep, highly recommend taking a partner who's also trained and BOTH of you have and practice using beacon*/shovel/probe, and also practice "one skies while other watches" inchworm technique until you're on milder terrain. One can "thumbtack" in headfirst in a fall with the snow packing in around them and get their head (airway) buried.

* yeah yeah yeah, a "transceiver"

An avalanche class is for sure. IMG seems legit so I will look into a class with them.
I do have a couple friends who go out to Tucks and ski/splitboard, so this is the main reason why I am confident I can get out there.

nightofthelivingtele wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:56 pm

Oh tele gods, unlock your wisdom.

I recently moved to Vermont and picked up tele. I love it, if alpine is rock and roll, tele is jazz.

This being said, I am no Miles Davis.

My fear is this- I want to explore the backcountry, and I have already done some skinning (smuggs notch, Pico and Killington, etc.) but I stick to the groomers or the Notch road on the decent. I want to explore and do runs like Tuckerman's in NH and similar stuff. I know if I got an AT setup I could jump into something like that tomorrow, I have alpine skied for about 7 years, but that is not the path to true enlightenment.

Currently I have an old pre-Switchback-ish 75 mm binding, some beat up old Scarpas, and a pair of Rossi 200 TDIs 70 underfoot. Multiple people have told me that new gear would make it "easier" and that I could progress faster.

Here is my question - Is it reasonable to believe that if I got an upgraded setup (NTN or TTS) could I reasonably expect to send some double blacks on groomers in a season (23/24)? If anyone here has been in the tele game for less than 3 lifetimes and can make a turn I would love to hear what your progression experience was like.

Peace

Having skiied variable stuff in my brief time,and coming from an alpine skiing background, I take a qualitative and analytical approach. I used to alternate alot between AT and light telegear. At first, AT > tele because I knew I could get down the mountain. I would advise that you go with AT gear on unfamiliar terrain and evaluate the snow, the angle, the surface, everything about it. This way, you are not concentrating on the actual skiing, but rather everything else around you. I used to find that if I took my light telegear out into the unknown, I would find myself in really difficult spots... can skin up, but have alot of trouble getting down. After many many hours of practice and evaluation, this is rarely the case anymore. When/if conditions are tough, risky, or I know I am going to do something difficult, I either use my AT setup or don't ski at all.

I believe snow science and getting a feel for different snow qualities and terrain evaluation will help you become a better skiier on any setup. But in order to do that, you have to already have a good foundation...so that is why I recommend that you initially use your AT setup...so you can rapidly develop those skills. Save your tele gear for fun days, ideal snow, and easier lines....then gradually move up to more complicated settings with your free heel gear as you progress with both skiing techniques and terrain evaluation.

Sometimes, you need the right tool for the right job. And I'm a firm believer of this. Over the past few yrs, I have been on light nordic BC gear 99% of the time. It's been an amazing journey. The few times I do reach for my AT setup or my mountaineering setup, it's because there is no way in hell I could do the trip on a light freeheel touring setup.

edit: I think I misunderstood you. you don't have an AT setup(?) ... just an old tele setup. don't upgrade your gear. study snow science. ski bunny hills until you can rip down in record time then move up to more challenging conditions.

Good luck and have fun out there!