Learning to Turn on Resort Setup

[Stephen]

It’s all about the turn!
There have been a few Threads lately on turning technique:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5534
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4436

To me, it seems like there are almost two different disciplines here:
One is on light equipment, and could be resort, but more likely BC.
The other is heavier equipment, and might more likely be resort, but could also be BC.
With differences in technique for all the different combinations.

Right now, I’m doing resort on heavy.
TX Pro, Meidjo, and a mix of skis (Rustler 10, Enforcer 94, Ripstick 96 mostly).

Fast forward, and today is day 14 total on that equipment, over the last 9 months.
At this stage, each day is a large incremental step in the learning process.
Day 1 was trying to figure out how to not spin out backwards and crash on each turn.
Several days early on brought the realization that, even though I THOUGHT I was doing back foot weighting, it wasn’t as much as I thought and wasn’t enough.

Then came some days of trusting that the skis were going to do pretty much what I wanted them to do and learning to ride them.

Several times today I was getting the tail of my back foot ski onto the tail of my front ski and then crashing.
I think the solution to that is better steering with the back ski knee.
Hard to put into words…

There are a lot of pieces to put together for the turns to work well, be fun, and sort of effortless.

I’ve never liked the big toe / little toe thing, but today had to admit there is something to it.
Where the pressure is placed, on especially the rear foot, makes a difference.
To me, it’s not literally “the little toe” but making sure the pressure is on that side of the foot.

For me, there is a certain body sensation in getting the pieces put together well.
On the inside ski, I feel the pressure on the little toe side of ball of foot and toes, my legs are both dynamic and relaxed, my hip is dropping down toward my heel, core is engaged (upper and lower body are working together), my hips are in line with my spine (my butt isn’t sticking out), upper body is relaxed, shoulders are relaxed, hands are low and ahead, everything feels in balance and alignment.
And then something gets out of wack and I have to look for what to fix!

In the end, it’s just practice, practice, practice (and enjoy!) while piecing together what works.

I’m rambling, but hope there might be something useful for someone in the early learning stages.

[tkarhu]

Great thread @Stephen! I have thought of starting a similar thread for skinny and long skis with double cambers. I have quite exactly same amount of sessions with that setup learning telemark turns, as you with resort gear.

I think the little toe / big toe drill is useful with double cambers, too. Following video gives a good impression of how it feels on footsoles. Better just turn sounds off, when watching IMO



The rear knee steering drill you describe has sounded like plastic boot stuff to me. Another trick that seems more doable on 1-1.5 cambers and resort setup is sidewards slipping and releasing edges.

[greatgt]

Well said "S". Doing Alpine skiing on Alpine equipment and dropping the knee is different from dropping the knee in the BUSH on Nordic equipment. As I keep on saying, Boarders are closer to the TARC (telemark arc), than Alpine clade tele markers at a lift served resort. TM

[lowangle al]

It’s all about the turn!
There have been a few Threads lately on turning technique:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5534
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4436

To me, it seems like there are almost two different disciplines here:
One is on light equipment, and could be resort, but more likely BC.
The other is heavier equipment, and might more likely be resort, but could also be BC.
With differences in technique for all the different combinations.

Right now, I’m doing resort on heavy.
TX Pro, Meidjo, and a mix of skis (Rustler 10, Enforcer 94, Ripstick 96 mostly).

Fast forward, and today is day 14 total on that equipment, over the last 9 months.
At this stage, each day is a large incremental step in the learning process.
Day 1 was trying to figure out how to not spin out backwards and crash on each turn.
Several days early on brought the realization that, even though I THOUGHT I was doing back foot weighting, it wasn’t as much as I thought and wasn’t enough.

Then came some days of trusting that the skis were going to do pretty much what I wanted them to do and learning to ride them.

Several times today I was getting the tail of my back foot ski onto the tail of my front ski and then crashing.
I think the solution to that is better steering with the back ski knee.
Hard to put into words…

There are a lot of pieces to put together for the turns to work well, be fun, and sort of effortless.

I’ve never liked the big toe / little toe thing, but today had to admit there is something to it.
Where the pressure is placed, on especially the rear foot, makes a difference.
To me, it’s not literally “the little toe” but making sure the pressure is on that side of the foot.

For me, there is a certain body sensation in getting the pieces put together well.
On the inside ski, I feel the pressure on the little toe side of ball of foot and toes, my legs are both dynamic and relaxed, my hip is dropping down toward my heel, core is engaged (upper and lower body are working together), my hips are in line with my spine (my butt isn’t sticking out), upper body is relaxed, shoulders are relaxed, hands are low and ahead, everything feels in balance and alignment.
And then something gets out of wack and I have to look for what to fix!

In the end, it’s just practice, practice, practice (and enjoy!) while piecing together what works.

I’m rambling, but hope there might be something useful for someone in the early learning stages.

It's all the same sport Stephen. The difference that you are feeling is mostly from the big ntn boots. The binding will be a different feel and wide skis feel different than narrow ones, but the big thing is relearning how to get centered with the big boots. Your old stance probably won't work because you can't bend your ankles the way you did with light boots.

Work on your stance with the boots, trying to get weight on both skis at the same time. The tighter your stance the easier it will be to do that.

When I was switching between leather boots and the old low cut blue T2s there wasn't much difference in feel. Stepping up to a four buckle boot did feel like a different sport at first, and it may have taken 2 seasons of bc skiing to get fully proficient with them.

My philosophy on boots is: If I can't drive (a car) in them or dance in them, I sure don't want to ski in them. As I got older now they also have to be comfortable enough to take a nap in.

[Montana St Alum]

Yeah, it's just practice. The idea of weighting the little toe never clicked with me initially. Once I started thinking about it as "driving the knee into the turn" the visualization was easier.
Also, with lighter gear, it's easy to get into the stance by pulling a ski back. As the binding/boot become more active (more resistant to lifting that heel - dropping that knee) it becomes more important to think of it in terms of pressuring the cuff on the rear boot to keep it in position. If you find the rear ski "popping forward" toward the end of the turn, it's often that which is the issue. It doesn't take long to program that into muscle memory, and then it's just automatic.

Everyone seems to love the Ripsticks. How are the R10's working out?

[fisheater]

@Stephen the percentage of guys willing to learn a new skill that involves being knocked to the ground, dramatically decreases as gray hair increases.
You’re one bad hombre!
What’s next, bull riding?

[connyro]

Well said "S". Doing Alpine skiing on Alpine equipment and dropping the knee is different from dropping the knee in the BUSH on Nordic equipment. As I keep on saying, Boarders are closer to the TARC (telemark arc), than Alpine clade tele markers at a lift served resort. TM

What is the difference to you between dropping the knee at a ski hill vs the bush?

[Stephen]

@Stephen the percentage of guys willing to learn a new skill that involves being knocked to the ground, dramatically decreases as gray hair increases.
You’re one bad hombre!
What’s next, bull riding?

I did have a bit of a headache last night — glad I started wearing a helmet…


So far, not interested in the typical aging program!

[Stephen]

I tend to be visual and body feel.
When learning something, for me knowing what something feels like helps.
There are SO MANY things one can be THINKING about when trying to learn something new that it can get overwhelming.

Sometimes I find I’m better off to stop thinking and go with body feel.
And images can help.

I like the look in these photos:
.
Low hands, upright stance, relaxed.

.

.
To me, looks angulation and like dropping the rear ski hip as part of the body position?

[tkarhu]

To me, looks angulation and like dropping the rear ski hip as part of the body position?

In your post, the image above the question makes me think of / feel following muscle activations:

• When you keep your chest facing downhill, and you are in a right foot back telemark stance, you need to elongate your right side of the body.

• Because you pressure the ball of your right foot, there is a downward pressing muscle activation from your right waist down to your right foot.

• And, having an upper body rotation to the left, there is an upwards activation from your right hip upwards, on the right side of your trunk.

To summarize an answer to the question: ”dropping” a hip does not describe my experience in the position because muscles around my right hip get active. ”Dropping” sounds more passive. I feel more an active lengthening on the right side of my body.

EDIT: I ski skinnies... what do people on plastic boots think?